Infant class size appeal

[Summer1310]

Hi ,
im looking for some advice on a infant class size appeal which I'm waiting to hear a date for , for Sept 2022 reception place I've read some expert advice on here and wondered if anyone could share some specific to my situation ?
my older son I sent to an out of catchment village school 2 years ago , he has a diagnosis of Autism and SPD ( now has an EHCP but didn't when I applied) I looked at many schools local to me but this was the only school that actually wanted to have him and agreed they could meet his needs and he's doing brilliant even though he has very complicated needs and getting him in and out of school is a problem as he often refuses I'm so happy for him and he loves it there. So naturally I only applied for my daughter to go here as the school is amazing , but due to a high birth year in village they havent offered her a place which I'm now having to appeal as there's been no movement in places ( am currently on waiting list position 1) however the school have a pan of 18 but have already offered 21 places ( last child offered a place was a set of twins out of cat ment sibling )I feel it's unlikely 2 children will leave for her then to get that space , and also someone could move to the area making us lower down list.
another interesting thing I noticed was on the school admission category every category clearly stated how they would prioritise that category except the "siblings out of catchment " category which was the category my daughter was placed in and that of the last child admitted to the school. I know they live 0.07 closer according to distance but as stated it doesn't state they will prioritise by distance ...
so I've referred to this in my appeal letter , the fact that moving my son isn't an option (the school head agreed with this) and also my daughter has epilepsy which I've managed to get a supporting letter from her specialist nurse supporting me stating how the longer travel times between schools ,earlier mornings , later days will negatively impact her seizure control etc
im struggling to sleep worrying about this appeal I know it's so strict on what they allow and have done a lot of research but could just do with some advice personal to my situation any help will be greatly appreciated.

A panel would consider it fair that any possible extra places were offered in normal priority, rather than roulette of appeals.

That statement is wrong in several ways. Appeal panels are very willing to countenance admitting additional pupils via appeal. Their role is to determine when that will or won’t be appropriate, having weighed up evidence from the parent and the school. The way appeal panels do this is structured around the admissions and appeals codes and they receive mandatory training for the role. It’s a quasi-judicial process, far from roulette.

@Takeachance18 Thankyou for your response, I suppose that is a bridge I will have to cross when it happens , my sons school doesn't offer wrap around care but my daughters school does but due to her epilepsy she becomes exhausted by afternoon ( almost like a zombie past 3 pm ) I think going earlier and staying later will add to this , and tiredness causes her to have more seizures so this is the catch 22 I'm in.
My youngest goes to school next September and yes I have thought I will be in the same situation however the forecast data of know children (off county council website ) is much lower for the catchment next year so could not be an issue I know not a guarantee as I said this was the first year schools been a high birth year in village.
The school are just amazing , yes I do feel like an outcast but it's not about me I'm just trying to do best by children , maybe if other children went I would get to know other parents better as my older son generally like to be alone. I know a few parents at daughters offered school (some are people I went to school with) I suppose if appeal is unsuccessful every cloud has a silver lining my heart just breaks for my son , he will be only one in school without his sibling .

I meant it in terms of those parents who are more "active" the roulette refers to it not necessarily the parents who would most benefit but those prepared to appeal (you may have a child who would really benefit from a school who is number 1 on wait list but whose parents don't have English as first language, don't understand the system). Panels do make their decisions based on evidence, but can only consider those who appeal. As a school if you can, is it not fairer to admit based on existing criteria, not whose parents appeal?

Would the school look after your son in the office after school till you get there. I know some schools do this where siblings have ended up in different schools (one year there were 6 who didn't get in). It is quite frequent for a child with EHCP not to be at same school as sibling, it can also be a good thing, as they get known for being themselves, and some space away from a sibling, particularly if sibling is demanding at home and not such and such sibling (if they are a bit difficult at school).

I really hope it works out for you - it is so difficult juggling different needs and demands and being so close to missing out is horrible when you just need something to make life a little bit easier to navigate with 2 children with SEND, plus siblings.

@Takeachance18 Thankyou for your response , I'm sure they would and have said they will do whatever they can to support me , it's just a bittersweet as the first year he was there he went in separate to their children and we worked really hard to get him going in and coming out with other children , him being part of the "normal" routine felt amazing and a really accomplishment and now to think it was all for nothing as he will potentially spend the rest of his time at the school segregated from the other children (drop offs / pickups) I just feel if I do something to support daughter son pays the price and vice versa.
Thankyou so much for trying to put a positive outlook on a diabolical situation greatly appreciated!! I'm sure everything happens for a reason. Yes it's very hard I have an older daughter I have to take drop off at school aswell who although arguably could walk (11) she has to make a lot of sacrifices due to having younger siblings , I want to be there for her too.

Yes, it’s certainly the case that once schools have determined their PAN they should admit up to that number and not (as one sometimes sees) slightly less than PAN so that they have a few “spare” places ready for appeals. The email/letter refusing a place mentions the right of appeal and there’s lots of information online, including on MN.

Here's a question (which might be hypothetical, but possibly might be relevant next year):

School has PAN of 18, but could admit 20 without going over class size limit. If they choose to admit two extras, do they have to consider the waiting list for year 1 as well as those applying for reception? (The answer may well be no - obviously it's usually better for kids not to be changing schools - but it's a question worth asking.)

I think it's odd that they have gone to 21, actually. If it's their discretion to go over the PAN, surely they look and see the twins and realise that it might be better to stick at 19. Or did they not know when offering place number 20 that it would be going to a twin?

@lanthanum Thankyou for you response, yes they know it was a twin offered place 20 and as it states on there policy that it the last child admitted is from a multiple birth all will be offered a place . Yes that's a very good point , if my appeal is unsuccessful (know this is likely the case ) I'm going to try and discuss with the head the possibility of next year , of course this all depends if my younger son gets in but if for example they only offer 18 or 19 places there will be one space in KS1 however if they admitted 20 each class would be at 30

@WhatsHoppening Thankyou for your response , yes an hour a day the original allocated school was 4.7 miles away from sons school and they go in at the same time but due to having to drive through a highly built up traffic area in the morning (my town is awful for traffic and is a real problem ) I would be between 30-40 mins late (assuming my son doesn't kick off and refuses to go in which he often does ) I would then need to pick her up early to make it to my sons school on time about (20 mins) so that is how I come to the conclusion she would miss an hour a day I've since made a late application choosing the school next to my sons nursery which is slightly closer and would cut out some traffic but would still be looking at about 40-45 missed a day if I dropped her second and collected first .

@WhatsHoppening and to answer your question this would be for 4 years

If they are going over PAN they will only look at the waiting list for the relevant year. So no, they do not need to consider the waiting list for Y1.

The twin that took them to 21 is an excepted child, so doesn't count towards the infant class size limit. So, even though the combined Reception, Y1 class will have 31 pupils, they are still within the limit of 30 pupils per teacher.

I've made a new thread about preparing for my appeal any advice would be greatly appreciate or shared experience of what an appeal hearing is actually like as I'm really nervous .www.mumsnet.com/talk/primary/4579348-preparing-for-ics-appeal

I just wanted to update and for anyone who's reading this who has found them self in this awful situation my appeal was successful !!

Thankyou to everyone for there advice and support !!

Anyone whose considering appealing you should you have nothing to lose , the hearing it's self was fine and the panel were really nice it was nothing like how I imagined it would be.