Year 2 - writing

[Bucks2015]

I’m looking for some advice to support my year 2 DD with writing. We were asked to book some
time with the teacher recently who explained that DC is very capable, but because of tight fit nature of the year 2 assessment she’d be working towards standard or even below key stage due to a few issues.

On writing she’s sometimes getting p and d backwards. We are practicing this at home and I’m hopeful we can get it sorted- when I ask her to write those letters she does it right, it’s when she’s writing a story/sentence she sometimes forgets.

The bit I’m more worried about is the spelling. She’s not consistently using the variety of spelling rules (eg ly, Ed at end of sentences) but there’s also no pattern in what she gets right or not, so it’s a broad refresh needed. I think alot
of it is about listening to the sounds and thinking about it, which she doesn’t do when she’s focused on writing a story/sentence. So far we’ve done a few worksheets (a bit dull), practised writing sone silly sentences and played some word games with tiles (eg how many words can you write from these letters in 5 minutes). I’ve also just discovered the night zookeeper which she was super keen on yesterday until I stupidly
called it a writing game! Interestingly, her spelling was much more accurate typing - presumably because she can’t type fast so is thinking about it. Sometimes apparently the spellings aren’t phonetically plausible either which is the below KS but (eg lettr, bottm). Any advice on what I can do to help and get her to think more about spelling whilst writing? She’s got no idea we’ve been spoken to about this.

We also got told the same could happen in maths as she’s getting 5s backwards sometimes. Im fairly confident we can sort this with a bit of extra practice and I can see it’s improved already in the last week - same issue above
though as still happens sometimes
when she’s focused on the sum rather than formation. No issues with the actual maths work.

No issues with reading or comprehension.

Teacher is great and I’m doing a follow up email to get some extra advice from her too, but just thought others who’ve had this might have some ideas. I’m also not wanting to put any pressure on Dc as fully aware she’s only just turned 7 and having looked into it more closely, I’m astounded the level of spelling rules they have to learn! I don’t mind about the designation, it’s more about putting her in a good place for KS2 as conscious once you fall behind can be hard to catch up and I don’t want her confidence or interested dented as she’s bright and generally interested in learning. Sorry for such a long post! I’ve spent loads of time looking at the various spelling rules and trying to shape something that is fun, effective and vaguely structured but feels like I’m going round in circles a bit.

As the year 2 assessments start now - or have started. I really wouldn't stress. She is writing. She is spelling words almost right - so has a good idea and isn't scared to try. Lots of praise. Possibly do 10 spellings a week from the ks2 list. Jist continue to Foster a love of learning. Play number games and word games - hang man, make silly crosswords and word searches. Read Read Read. And don't put her off school by letting her think she isn't good enough. Her reception year was impacted through covid, some of last year was impacted through covid. Let her catch up in her time. She will be OK.

My DD sounds very similar to yours but I have to say the school have handled it completely differently. They don't care. They can see it will come with time. Pp is right - don't fret about it and don't let your DD fret or feel worried either. She'll get there. SATs test the school, not the individual kids. The important thing is that she has interesting ideas in her head. That is much harder to learn than correct spellings.

Thank you! She’s fine with the exception words list so don’t need to worry about those. Feel a bit guilty in case I’ve missed something but you’re right, no point stressing! She’s not aware of any issues so I’m not putting any pressure on her - have just focussed the stuff we normally do outside of school on this rather than other areas (exception words etc).

I would concentrate on reading with her and too her, get some audiobooks on the iPad, try oxfordowl free books to start with. She needs to hear more words and sentence fluency.

I wouldn’t rule out dyslexia, keep it in the back of your mind as for now she’s coping, she may come to a ceiling point and you might see the struggle.

Thanks. We’ve got a yoto player so she’s listens to lots of audiobooks. Not sure we’ve got the balance right with reading so trying to listen less and read more. My husband is severely dyslexic so that’s always in the back of our minds but nothing has been mentioned and she’s a very confident reader and sometimes spells perfectly - it’s just inconsistent.

My year two sounds exactly the same as yours. We've had no pressure from school though. He has handwriting intervention and a little extra homework but that's all. Please remember year two are the MOST disrupted school age children as a result of the pandemic. They are not going to be at the 'usual' level for year two. Sounds like you're doing plenty, she's still young, there's lots of time. Perhaps your school was overly concerned about SATs? Which frankly isn't your problem!

Teacher is fantastic and has been very clear about the disruptions etc. I wonder if it was partly to warn us about it so we don’t get a surprise at end of term time. It’s not about the Sats as I don’t think there is a writing one but the assessment the teachers do against year 2 criteria which is what I think we see in reports.

I would think it is definitely so you aren't suprised if she comes out with those assessments. And don't give the teacher a tough time then. And actually it's fantastic that the teacher is engaging with you and informing you - it doesn't always happen. So be assured the school seem on top of it. Unless they specifically say 'this is an issue and we need you to do X' then the info is FYI.

You really sound like you are supporting really well.

Our school does RWI and one of the really good spelling stratergies that has really helped my DD (Y1) is 'Fred on your fingers' so basically sounding out the word on your fingers, one finger for each sound (not letter - so a di/trigraph would just be one finger) really makes them break down the word and think about exactly what sounds are in it.

He
spelling has come on leaps and bounds since they introduced RWI this year!

They’ve asked us to support at home with more practice as think she’s really close and would then be strongly in the secure category, but it’s all been done in a supportive way. Can’t fault the teacher - she’s ace and has made year 2 really fun and engaging after a tough couple of years.

They do RWI too and used to do that - might be worth reintroducing. Thanks, hadn’t thought of that and it’s language she’ll be familiar with. We used to hear alot about Fred!

If your DH is severely dyslexic and these mistakes are happening that aren't in line with your DD's ability across the board, and happening inconsistently when they do occur, I'd pay for a private assessment for dyslexia. The earlier you get it the fewer years of expensive tuition required and the more effective it is. Everyone talks about early intervention but no one wants to be that person who gets their child assessed when things aren't really hard and it could be nothing. That's exactly the time to get an assessment done

"My husband is severely dyslexic so that’s always in the back of our minds but nothing has been mentioned and she’s a very confident reader and sometimes spells perfectly - it’s just inconsistent."

My DS was very like your daughter - a decent reader for his age, passed the phonics screener, articulate, spelling "behind" and inconsistent, letter/number reversals persisting after turning 7, and (this may be true for your daughter too?) a surprisingly big gap between his verbal ability and his writing. School laughed at the notion of dyslexia because his reading was meeting age related expectations and he'd passed a basic dyslexia screener in year R, but we had niggles and DH is severely dyslexic which gives at least a 50% risk as it's highly heritable. We had a full private assessment at start of summer term of year 2 and DS is indeed dyslexic (and very bright, hence the getting by in most areas though actually working below his underlying ability - encoding/spelling is the hardest thing and so was where his struggles were most apparent).

Completely agree with @Steamoutmyears , now is the perfect time to be "that parent" and get an assessment done, and specialist intervention if it's needed - before things get bad and before their self esteem has taken too many knocks. Many children get by/middle through until upper KS2 or even KS3 before problems get very bad and it's a lot harder to help at that point.

Thanks @Cockerdileteeth and @Steamoutmyears - that’s really interesting. DH has been adamant she isn’t as her writing is so neat and she’s a good reader. Will speak to the teacher and have a look into it. She’s only just 7 but in many ways I’d rather get it checked then wonder.

I would be inclined to channel help at home via approaches that are designed for dyslexic learners until you know for sure either way - it will still benefit her if she isn't, and could make all the difference if she is. Make it multi sensory rather than relying on look/cover/say type approaches; Dyslexia Scotland have some good parent info and ideas on their website /youtube channel. Nessy is good if you want a computer based approach (DS has actually got on best with old fashioned real world multisensory learning). Phonic Books do some good catch-up programmes which you can use to revisit phonics for spelling, sound by sound - lots of games and activities in the accompanying workbooks www.phonicbooks.co.uk/product-category/catch-up-readers/ These have helped DS who's in year 3 now. But much over-learning and repetition is needed to get spelling patterns to stick around in his long term memory.

Inconsistency, and struggling most when also thinking what to write and holding that in his mind ie when the cognitive load is high, are how DS is too and it was being put down to silly mistakes or lack of focus/effort, pre-diagnosis. It's the dyslexia.

@Bucks2015 sounds good - if not dyslexic (or anything else in the "dys" family") a report still gives fab insights into strengths and weaknesses and how to support any areas of weakness going forward, and that self-knowledge is never wasted. And of course peace of mind that she's not dyslexic and that you know how best to help with the wobbly areas of her learning.

@Cockerdileteeth thanks - is there a reputable place to get it done you’d recommend? Or is it localised?

Helen Arkell centre is very well regarded if you're down south. Though they had a massive waiting list last year so we ended up finding our own assessor independently (which was cheaper too). You can also go through the BDA and they will arrange assessment for you. If finding your own, make sure the person holds all the qualifications so any diagnosis is valid through to uni www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/services/accreditation/dyslexia-assessor-accreditation . Patoss have a list of assessors. Your local BDA branch might have a list too. Maybe ask school who they rate locally, if they will tell you (ours wouldn't as they wanted to save us wasting our time and money on it :-) )

This is interesting OP and I'm having similar worries about a little girl in my class. She is a very strong reader and writer- she writes with great imagination and stamina for Year 1. I had a writing moderation with a very experienced writing consultant and she flagged this little girl as possibly having dyslexia as she is not recognizing spelling patterns. She will frequently drop 'er', 'ed' ending and just write r or d. I didn't think this was a huge problem in Year 1 but the consultant said give her more time but keep and eye out for more signs of dyslexia.
This little girl has neat handwriting and is a fantastic reader.
I think it would be wise to have her privately assessed if this is affordable for you.

I'm not saying ignore any potential issues but having been a year 2 teacher for many years I have had many similar conversations with parents. The rules and expectations are so strict and the children are supposed to use every part of every statement with repeated evidence of it to be awarded expected and don't get me started on greater depth!

It is not about allowing children to coast or anything like that. I have had really good writers who according to our moderators, who are just other teachers with some extra training, have not achieved greater depth because they didn't use an apostrophe correctly on 2 occasions. I looked at them and said that is a 6 year old you are talking about and they were so hung up on not allowing the level.

SATs really are a waste of time. I use better ways of assessing my children daily and I am pushing them to achieve as high as they can whilst still writing like 6 and 7 year olds!

@Piapea that's interesting.

Do you think the way reading is taught these days, and all the phonics coaching, could mean more dyslexic children are now avoiding reading failure than when we were kids - which is fab, if true - but still struggling with spelling and in other more subtle ways due to the underlying neurodiversity which will obvs still be there? That is my dyslexic DH's theory. I wondered what a teacher's perspective would be.

@Cockerdileteeth that is one way of looking at it, and if so, that's a win for Read Write Inc! But I was thinking (with my sample of just one) that this particular little girl knows her phonics so we'll that she is just streaming through her writing and not stopping to think about what looks right or makes sense. I honestly have no idea how I, or anyone older than me learned to read!

Thanks - that’s a really helpful perspective and will make sure to speak to the teacher before doing anything else. It’s just something to keep in the back of my mind given DH.

I’m in awe of teachers, particularly year 2 ones now having tried to go through things in a bit more detail. We’re super proud of DD whatever the formal assessment is at year end! It’s astounding the range of things they’re meant to learn and amazing the teachers (certainly the one we have) still make schools an engaging and fun place.

Her handwriting has nothing to do with it and with respect, your DH hasn't a clue. Dyslexia can present in many different ways and take different forms. Your DD may be presenting with subtle deficits that an ordinary school teacher might not recognise as dyslexia. This was our experience and nothing gets better until you have the assessment to wave around! The assessment should also give tailored advice about what interventions will work best.

You're in a very strong position because your child is so young and clearly strong. It might be that if you caught up with the problem at this age, she would only need interventions for a time limited period.

I'm speaking from bitter experience. Don't listen to people telling you not to worry and therefore do nothing but support vaguely. I'm suggesting you don't worry but do get busy. The stats on the amount of help needed based on the age of diagnosis are encouraging if your child is going. Supporting a dyslexic child is expensive. Financially and in terms of morale and self esteem, getting a diagnosis is a win win situation.

If your husband is dyslexic (mine is too) I cannot see any rationale for blindly blundering on when it is very likely that your lovely girl could be helped.

My dd is a wonderful writer, gets all her spellings correct, has great comprehension skills and loves books. We were placated for years and things just got worse for her as she got older. After huge amounts of investment in specialist tutoring from the age of nine, we're starting to see improvements but it will never be the experience she should have had where support was offered as soon as the problems began to emerge. Don't wait.

Planet dyslexia on Facebook might be helpful. They have a list of recommended practitioners.

young not going