New Year 4 Teacher Shouting; Banging Desks; Physically Pulling Kids Into Line....

[roses2]

Hi,

My DS in Year 4 (age 9) goes to a small outstanding rated school. Three weeks ago he got a new teacher as the old one "suddenly" resigned (we only got 1 day notice!).

The first two weeks he was coming home crying; said she shouts a lot and sends him out of class. Granted he can be disruptive but each year so far all the teachers have found a way to hold his attention without disrupting the class and sending him out.

DH went to speak with her; gave her a firm talking to that the shouting and sending him out isn't working and she needs to try another strategy which we will happily work with her on. Since then she has stopped sending DS out of class although the shouting continues.

Since last week DS has been coming home crying saying she has been hurting his friends. This is where I am now concerned:

• she shouts a lot
• Bangs the table of kids not listening
• DS said she is physically hurting his friends. Another school mum contacted me yesterday to say she is taking her child out of school today because he was the one she physically pulled to get into line. DS actually gave me the name of another child the teacher did this to, not this child!
• There is no longer a TA in the class, just her. So no other adult witness

I have a meeting with the deputy head this afternoon. Shouting at kids, banging desks and physically manoeuvring children to the point they cry is not acceptable.

I want to log this formally with the school but not really sure how to.

Can anyone help guide me on the process so I can articulate myself clearly when I meet the deputy head this afternoon?

It's normally a loving nurturing school with a great ethos. This is the first major issue we have had (and heard of).

If you need to pay your child to behave, how the teacher suppose to deal with him? Pay him too?

I guess the old teacher left because she had run out of ways of managing the class and this one has been brought in to get them under some sort of order.

When you say 'pulling into line' i guess you mean literally putting hands on shoulders to get them into a straight line? So why are the parents not telling their kids to stand in line and not be disruptive so that the teacher can just, you know, teach them?

I've been a teacher and had to go in to sort out unruly classes. It's fucking exhausting. Kids that disrupt need to be taken out so that the other can learn something.

Granted he can be disruptive.. you need to support your son and the school to build strategies to deal with this at home/school otherwise things will only get worse when he goes to secondary. Your DH needs to not go into school again - what he did was unhelpful and inappropriate. I cannot imagine other parents have put in an 'abuse' complaint. It sounds like a difficult class and this teacher needs support. Also if the previous teacher left suddenly - this person is likely supply or on a temporary contact

I'm a primary school teacher. This is such a disappointing read. You know your child, who has no SEN, has been disruptive for years, yet you have done nothing? Not asked for him to be placed on a daily behaviour report so you can support the teacher and your own child to comply with expected standards of behaviour? Declared your 100% support of teacher and school, so your son knows he will never be able to play one off against the other? Placed conditions on treats and privileges?
The leadership team at your son's school is also massively at fault. Their failure to act on a recurring issue has led to this situation. What does the school's behaviour policy say? For years, they have allowed a disruptive pupil to disrupt without appropriate intervention, leaving teachers to manage as best they can. Jesus wept. What you describe as teachers 'finding ways to hold his interest' has likely come at great cost to the teachers involved and your son's peers. It sounds as if the new teacher has been trying to, or tasked with, asserting appropriate boundaries. I bet sending disruptive pupils out of class is in the behaviour policy, but your husband's intervention intimidated the teacher, and she surrendered the one effective and leadership approved measure she had every right to use, to the detriment of her own capacity to successfully deliver the curriculum to a class of learners. Your school's leadership should have acted on your son's non-compliance a long time ago and saved themselves this headache. My hunch is that they know your family has potential, or form, for expecting exceptional treatment for your child, through means of intimidation and litigation, and have just buried their heads in the sand, hoping it'll just go away.

And this is why no-one wants to be a teacher nowadays.

Furrbabymama87
If anyone physically hurt or intentionally intimidated one of my kids I'd be seeing them directly and it would take every bit of me not to knock them the fuck out.

We have a parent like you at my school. She is currently banned from the premises. Your username says it all.

Your husband went in and gave her a 'firm talking to'? How dare he? Highly hypocritical and not his place, regardless of what the issues are.

You know your child, who has no SEN, has been disruptive for years, yet you have done nothing?

Where have I said this??

The leadership team at your son's school is also massively at fault. Their failure to act on a recurring issue has led to this situation.

Yes I agree with this. More should have been done to inform the parents and perhaps it wouldn't have got this far.

Multiple parents have complained. Not just me. So please can everyone on this thread keep pointing at my DS.

More should have been done...really? Remember there is no evidence the teacher actually did anything wrong. Your child was disciplined for some poor behaviour, you were informed. You now want to blame the school and the teacher ... no doubt the other parents and you have had a fine time hyping this up , gossip from kids who may have been told off and not like being told off is not evidence of a big problem.

Roses, you referenced that previous teachers had always found a way to hold your child's interest. This statement was made in close proximity to another where you acknowledged your son's tendency for being disruptive. I interpreted this to mean that, as most children have one class teacher per year, at least two years have gone by with previous teachers having had to rely on their wits to appease a disruptive pupil.

And I must take issue with your statement that 'the issue is now out of your hands'. Take some responsibility. You placed it in the hands of senior leadership. You are the instigator, rightly or wrongly. What happens next is still very much everything to do with you.

Umm your DH gave the teacher a talking to ? If that’s your attitude I wonder if the other teacher left due to stress - they aren’t signed off with stress etc they have resigned and gone.

I witnessed a class of pupils and parents trying to bully a member of staff once. The poor behaviour of the class was not the kids fault but the teachers did not providing engagement etc any poor behaviour was due to the teacher. If she raised her voice slightly she was shouting etc there was a WA group
for parents and they basically agreed to a war and for different parents to make complaints on different days especially a Friday for maximum effect on the teacher. I screen shot the lot and emailed them to the head, direct to the teacher and the head of governors it was pure poison.

my attitude is so different to yours - my son is sent out there is an apology letter from him and me and I seek clarification on what he has done and support the teacher

OP why are you ignoring all the comments about your dh's behaviour?

I wonder where the son gets it from!

DS had a disruptive class. Parents used to say they wished there was a stricter teacher. Had a strict supply teacher in one day. Parents were queuing up to talk to the HT as their 'little angel' had been told off! Obviously when they wanted a stricter teacher they didn't mean for their child!

I'm not saying this particular teacher was not out of line, but could it also be that the pupils don't like them because they have to do as they are told and parents don't like it because their child has been told off.

I know of a class where the pupils had got a petition together to get rid of a teacher because they didn't like the fact that they were getting told off, but now respect the teacher and their learning has improved no end

I should clarify that when I say that the senior leadership team has failed to act on a recurring issue, I am referring to the issue of your son's disruptive behaviour. They could have supported your child by putting him on behaviour reports, creating social stories to support his understanding of the importance of not disrupting learning for others, discussing intrinsic (wanting to do the right thing) vs extrinsic (being paid) motivators and drivers to good behaviour with him, engaged you in frequent meetings and perhaps offered a parenting course, if necessary.

The biggest, most effective turn-arounds in changing challenging behaviour (such as disruptions in lessons) I have seen have always occurred when parents have backed school to the hilt, understood the impact of their child's disruptive behaviour on other children and their parents without trying to minimise it (a bit chatty etc) and committed to monitor behaviour on a daily basis for a set period.
Meet with teacher and SLT. Read behaviour policy. Identify specific actions for child. Make a daily chart, segmented into am / pm or even specific lessons, if necessary. Parent agrees to pick child up from school every day to review progress with teacher and / or member of SLT with child present. If necessary cancel after school care and request to leave work early, in order to be there to review child's behaviour progress at the end of each day for 2 weeks. Zoom it if necessary, just make it clear that it is a priority. If you are also able to drop child off in person in order to set the expectation for the day, that's even better. Parents need to double down and show their children this stuff matters.

Why was the child not in line and needed to be moved in line?
Why is your child disruptive?
What's wrong with sending a child out who is disrupting the lesson for everyone else?
The teacher banging on a desk sounds like the class aren't listening and she's trying to get their attention.
Are 9 year old children really scared by someone banging on a table?

The teachers shouldn't be manhandling anyone but alone in a classroom without a TA she sounds likes she's struggling with a disruptive class.

Ive had “a talking to” once or twice, usually from a Dad. Incredibly intimidating and in all cases, they did not know the whole story.
Usually the same people who like to mention that they pay my wages.
Not supporting the teacher behaviour but low level disruption has utterly sapped my energy this year. It’s exhausting and demoralising and ruins learning for the whole class.

Some classes can be hard work according to teachers I know, it’s just a mix of personalities which makes the difference, a few live wires and lack of support staff make a difference. I am amazed there is no TA because chances are there is at least one child with SEN in the class not being supported.

Being disruptive can cover a multitude of behaviours, from what OP has posted it seems her son is a talker. That in itself can be disruptive because he likely gets carried away, he’s Y4 so it happens but he’s now at an age when they are needing to be prepared for secondary school where rules may be much stricter. If he’s a talker in class they will need to help him get on top of this now.

In my experience, the school will close ranks.

I ended up moving schools.

For some strange reason, they don't want to believe that some teachers can be nasty bullies capable of emotionally damaging children. And most parents don't want to add their two pence because they're just bloody grateful it's not their child being picked on - and are just thankful to get to the end of the school year and away from them.

I am amazed there is no TA because chances are there is at least one child with SEN in the class not being supported.

Not having a TA is very much the norm these days. There just isn’t the budget.

Yes, not having TA support is a big issue when managing behaviour in a challenging class, and I really hope SLT find a way of putting some in place. Your observation that there are 'no adult witnesses' is problematic for so many reasons.

The shouting is neither here nor there, really. Some teachers are ‘shouty’ and some aren’t, even a shouty teacher doesn’t shout at classes who are behaving…

She shouldn’t be banging on desks or physically moving children though and while the children may be exaggerating/making stuff up/misremembering it’s important that allegations are listened to so that when there is a genuine issue it is dealt with.

I am amazed at your husband going to have a ‘firm word’ with the teacher because she sent your son out of the classroom when you admit yourself he’s disruptive. What would you like her do if he’s being disruptive mid lesson and there are potentially 30 other children to manage with no TA?

'Another school mum contacted me yesterday to say she is taking her child out of school today because he was the one she physically pulled to get into line.'

Maybe he should've got into the line, then. It - isn't hard. Sincerely doubt he was hurt by her pushing/pulling him into a line 🙄

'So please can everyone on this thread keep pointing at my DS.'

No, we know. There's your disruptive son and another who won't get his disrespectful arse into a line. So that's at least two in a class with no TA. Poor teacher.

Doesn’t it just 😂 bloody thugs, how about supporting the teachers in disciplining your little snowflakes?

OP maybe stop paying your little darling and you know, erm tell him off? Shocking I know but you never know it may just work. Oh and get your ‘D’H to apologise to the teacher who was just doing her job.

Banging her hand on the desk indeed 😆