Visit to local hunt kennels facing prosecution by primary school - WWYD

[Lakeylady]

Just that really. We had an email from school on Friday saying that the children would be going on a countryside learning day in 10 days to a nearby estate. Just that, no more info. I looked up the organisation running it over the weekend and they are a charity that promotes countryside sports. As part of the day there was a farm tour which sounded ok, then a gamekeeper tour when they learn about animal traps and pest control, which I am not particularly ok about but it is legal. Final bit was a tour of the kennels. The master and whipper in of this particular hunt are being prosecuted at the moment for illegal hunting and there have been news stories about their questionable animal welfare. This I am unhappy about which I let the school know about and I also contacted the countryside sports charity and said I didn’t think primary school children should visit an organisation being investigated when it would be their staff showing them round.
The school have cancelled the visit (I only asked for them not to do the hunt kennels bit but the organisation said my child would have to stand to one side with a member of their staff) but the chair of governors has written me a letter saying I have spoilt a nice day out.
I am so upset, I feel like some of the parents will blame me for standing up for my convictions but I feel this trip would have been wrong on lots of levels let alone breaking the political impartiality code. Meanwhile we have the National Arborteum on our doorstep and we haven’t done a trip there.

@Lakeylady @TheLadyofShalott1
I've clearly stated that I do not hunt. I have never hunted. You can believe me or not, as you choose.

As for the safety or otherwise of hounds, they wouldn't be loose in a badly-fenced ring at a country show with children being allowed to get in amongst them if they weren't extremely safe. They are very happy being in a pack, and they have daily human contact with hunt staff and so on - and some hunt staff have children, there will be children at meets (I've been to a meet, on foot, just to watch the hunt away).

They are trained not to chase deer, hares and rabbits, and to leave livestock alone. I watched a sab video once about 'hounds worrying sheep!' The hounds were following a scent through a pasture, completely ignoring the almost entirely unconcerned sheep.

As for that webinar, it was bloody shocking. But there are lies and deceit on both sides. I follow country pages on FB where I saw another video, this time from the GoPro of a huntsman in Scotland, which showed a LACS monitor filming a hunt. In Scotland, a hound pack is allowed to be used to flush a fox to guns and the monitor was trying to claim that the hounds would kill the fox because 'There are no guns in position'. Yet on the GoPro, even as it recorded the monitor, you could clearly see a man with a gun outlined on the horizon just behind. There is no way the monitor couldn't have seen him.

Moral of the story? Don't believe everything that either the hunts tell you, nor the sabs and LACs either.

I went on such a trip when I was about 8-9. At the kennels There was a skip with dead lambs in. The whole hunt thing was really horrible. And I was born and brought up in a fairly rural area

@EdithStourton would you like me to go through all the newspaper stories about domestic cats, lambs and deer bought down and injured by hounds or do you have the hours to spend doing that yourself?
You know they are also riddled with worms as they are fed not only their own kind (dead puppies) but a diet of raw fallen stock and very often not wormed. They spread diseases on farm land which is why many farmers won’t have them.
@DellaPorter sorry that had to be part of your childhood. there has recently been a huge expose about how hunts store the fallen stock and with many it contravenes all rules and puts us at risk of contamination and cross species disease spread.

@EdithStourton
Here we go
TRIGGER WARNING
www.itv.com/news/2022-02-02/secret-footage-exposes-shocking-scenes-of-dead-animal-disposal

@EdithStourton
There are so many domestic cat options bought up so I have gone for a recent one
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-56335193.amp

Peoples “views” on hunting (and that is what still happens a lot of the time) are irrelevant in this case. They are under investigation for illegal activities and it sounds like previous convictions.
Its like taking the kids to a garage that’s been done for handling stolen goods

This is correct ^

What on earth are the school thinking!

Good for tou OP. There are plenty of trips the kids can go on that don’t involve them being taught by people under criminal investigation.

The head writing to you to complain that you spoilt thentrip was incredibly weak and nasty. It was the school’s decision to cancel the trip based on what you said, theh didn’t have to.

It wasn’t an appropriate trip for primary kids and my DC would have been very upset by it.

@EdithStourton you said
"They are trained not to chase deer, hares and rabbits, and to leave livestock alone..."

All I can say to you is a genuine (not patronising) Bless You, and I am sorry but I think you are very naive if you believe that.

Just been going back through my emails and reread the one from the Chair of Governors. Do you think this wording oversteps what a governor should say to a parent who has contacted a school with a concern? I don't want to report the chair as I have to keep seeing this person everyday, but I feel so wounded by it still.

"From the school's perspective, what started as a fun plan to get the whole school out into the countryside for some outdoor learning now risks being blown into something negative and controversial so we have regrettably decided to cancel the trip as you will have seen from the parentmail. In my opinion, this a great shame given that the children and staff were already getting very excited about the day and a lot of organisation has already gone into planning logistics.

I hope that we can now consider the school's position on this concluded."

I would not have allowed my children to go on any trip where there was any suggestion that killing animals for human enjoyment was acceptable.

BUT I think the hunt has formed a far bigger basis for the rural community than people realise. Our countryside, the way it looks and operates has been built around hunting and shooting land management and I think it is no bad thing for children to explore that.

But potentially the way it has been managed is NOT good. Insects have been decimated by pesticides. We're reliant on chemical fertilisers. Nothing to be proud of.

I would also be very unhappy about DC doing that trip with the hunt effectively promoting themselves.

Only if they show a few foxes 'accidentally' being ripped apart would it be balanced.

UPDATE: based on how we were treated by the school leadership our local education authority has changed their guidance for schools on dealing with ethical sensitivities regarding school trips.
The neighbouring LEA has triggered an emergency safeguarding investigation in to children being chained together via collars attached around their necks like in the photo I shared (this has been deleted from the organisations website)
I will sleep easier now, I feel like someone listened.

Excellent news @Lakeylady you did the right thing in raising this and thank goodness common sense prevailed.

@SirChenjins thank you so much. It hasn’t been very nice but I am so much happier now it has resulted in some positive action.

That's excellent news @Lakeylady, well done, pleased to hear it won't be happening again. And as for the collar . . .

Why couldn't you just pull your own child from the trip rather than create drama and spoil the trip for everyone else? If I were a parent at the school I would think you're nuts, sorry. And my daughter would be hugely disappointed.

If I were a parent at the school I’d think someone who thought the OP was nuts isn’t someone whose opinion is worth bothering about.

I think you did the right thing & id have done the same. You didn’t cancel the trip, the school did. I bet other parents are also relieved! F the governor. I wouldn’t let my child go on a trip where there was any sign of support for hunting or game keeping.

Imagine if you will, a run down council estate in London and a couple of muscle bound chaps in string vests unleashing their equally muscular pit bulls on the street and cheering them on as they rip a fox apart between them. Then smearing some fox blood on a child's face to indicate its just the first time this lucky kid has witnessed this. Send for the Daily Mail, it would keep them going for days in whipped up outrage. But stick them on horses in Pink jackets and they'll be appreciatively moved to the Society pages. The fawning hypocrisy around fox hunting is astonishing.

Glad they have listened OP. FWIW I’d have responded to the governor’s letter expressing disappointment that their trip was so ill conceived as to include such an inappropriate destination, and would ask them to explain their rationale.

@newnamethanks brilliantly put! I dont understand how all the horrific "sports" from the past ie dog fighting cock fighting etc are outlawed (quite rightly) but somehow fox hunting (although banned) is accepted.

You do realise that millions of people abhor the idea of killing animals for sport don’t you? Yes, its an educational trip - to show children that some people think liking animals for pleasure is a good thing to do.

I believe the next trip the school is organising is to visit the local red light area. Are you OK with that? After all sex work is just honest work?

What a gross trip and I say that as someone who grew up on a farm. Hunting is disgusting and the game keepers round here literally shoot anything that moves - there's no 'wildlife' left. Unfortunately these places couldn't actually give a shit about the countryside (unless they're being paid to ie to set areas aside) they only care about money and themselves. We had a local gamekeeper whose idea of a holiday was to go to Africa shooting big game. That's how obsessed with killing stuff he was.

The Chair of Governors probably hunts OP, I wouldn't give it a second thought, they're probably connected to the place and organised the visit. It's all disgusting honestly and I grew up in the middle of it. The people who do it though are obsessive about it and think that anyone who doesn't agree must be a city idiot. A lot of them are very extreme and see it as 'their countryside' and 'their right'. Horrible, horrible entitled little men a lot of them.

Well done you for standing up and getting something done.