Interested in teachers' views... Any teachers here?

[cassiekmx]

My DS started primary school last year and I enrolled him in a local karate club around the same time.
He's a mixed race child living in a predominately white area (small village). There's already been a racist incident at school, but school dealt with it brilliantly. Can't fault them.
Anyway, I bring up my son to defend himself, not to cower away from bullies (not being bullied and never has, just want to pre-empt).
That's why I send him to karate (which he really enjoys).
Meanwhile, he keeps saying kids at his school are not allowed to hit
back (in self-defence). Just to be clear, I'd never condone him being an aggressor but I've always told him if someone hits him first then he must hit back and that I'd tell the school teachers exactly this and explain that he learns karate precisely for self-defence.
Karate instructor told me that his teenage son (a black belt) was set upon by 5 boys from his school and fought off every single one of them, some got broken teeth etc but the school STILL blamed him. For defending himself against 5 bullies! This father told the school they're talking rubbish and that he'll defend his son's right to stand up to bullies.
I couldn't agree more but get frustrated when my son say things like "we're not allowed to hit back" or "we just have to tell a teacher.". IMO, bullies NEED to be hit back.
So if you're not "allowed" to hit back in the event of bullying, you cower from them or simply allow them to do what they want? Struggling to see any logic in this!
Do ALL teachers believe the best thing is not to hit back??

@MaggieMooh

99% of the time a bully will back down when confronted by a victim who fights back. Bullies are cowards, they pick on those they think are weak. If you fight back they move on to an easier target.

You do realise this isn't just about bullying right?

But it's also bullshit.

• Of children who are bullied, those who hit back are more likelyy_ to be bullied six months later than children who don’t retaliate.

Provocative victims are at even greater riskk_ of ongoing bullying than passive victims because their actions keep the conflict going. They get caught in an ongoing cycle of revenge.

Children who are ineffectual aggressors become emotionally distressed, escalate conflicts into aggression, but end up losing fights. They are likely to keep being targeted for aggression.*

99% of the time a bully will back down when confronted by a victim who fights back. Bullies are cowards, they pick on those they think are weak. If you fight back they move on to an easier target.

There are more ways to fight back than with your fists… as there are more ways of bullying than with fists too.
Bullies don’t rely on victims not hitting back, they rely on victims being scared and silent. Asking for help is fighting back.

Some interesting views here..
Personally, I raised my children to defend themselves physically rather than the classic 'tell a teacher' stance. And yes, all 3 of my children did karate (2 did boxing as well), to help equip them to deal with life's bullies.
Also I'm a teacher (secondary school) and see some of the nasty, awful cruelty that bullies inflict. Anything that stops a bully in their tracks is good imo.

I wish I'd had the courage to stand up to my bullies when I was at school. Going to the teacher was no good either, because 'tell-tales' were ostracised, not only by the bullies, but by everyone else too. I lived my schooldays in constant fear, and if only I'd been able to lamp one of them, they might have left me alone after that.

I told my kids this, but I found it was important to keep discussing what was and wasn't ok, because they find the nuance hard. So make sure they learning de-escalation, telling an adult etc., as well as knowing they are allowed to hit back if they absolutely have no other choice.

@caranations

I wish I'd had the courage to stand up to my bullies when I was at school. Going to the teacher was no good either, because 'tell-tales' were ostracised, not only by the bullies, but by everyone else too. I lived my schooldays in constant fear, and if only I'd been able to lamp one of them, they might have left me alone after that.

This is a really really important point.

No matter what the teachers say, if the child, once beyond a certain age (7? 8?) tells the teacher, then they are a snitch.

But I still think we need to teach many kids the skills to deal with bullies that doesn't involve violence.

@busyeatingbiscuits

From the school's point of view, you can't have any ambiguity in the message.

School rule is - NO VIOLENCE. No hitting, no kicking, regardless of circumstances. Speak to a teacher.

If the school starts telling children that they are allowed to hit, in some circumstances... then some children will use that or interpret that in all kinds of ways.

This I’ve had a conversation with a parent in exactly the same circumstances just this week. Their child had been involved in a (small) fight and been punished for it alongside the other child. His consequences had been less severe as he hadn’t started the hitting BUT he had continua verbal argument that caused the whole thing. Parent claimed he was being bullied and he should’ve allowed to stand up for himself. He’s not being bullied. As a primary school we cannot allow violence of ANY kind.

I am a teacher. Please don't encourage your child to hit back- particularly when so young. It will be your child who gets in trouble. Violence leads to violence.

I am quite shocked the karate teacher boasted about his son breaking someone's teeth. That doesn't sound like a good example to be setting.

Every high school I know says if you hit back you'll be in isolation

And what happens after high school - you think the police say ‘it’s fine, he hit you first’ and don’t charge you for affect?

It’s not like the messaging isn’t consistent from teachers, law enforcement and the vast majority of martial arts instructors, ffs.

affray - sodding autocorrect