7 year old “mean girls”

[Mamabearwhere]

I can’t believe I’m having to ask this but how can girls as young as 7 be so mean!? My dd has been having issues with a group of girls who she considers her friends but their behaviours are classic mean girl. Examples like “you can’t sit there, that’s for so and so” or “you can’t play with us” / “you’re not allowed to join in” etc. My dd is very gentle by nature so she doesn’t know/can’t be mean back or even stand up for herself in the way that she should. She’s worried about being in trouble by teachers for being unkind. I’ve explained it’s ok for her to tell her friends that they’re being mean and that’s not a nice way to behave but I think she’d rather just play it safe and hope they will just let her play with them and she genuinely considers them friends because we’ve done play dates in the past etc.

My heart breaks for her. I see how they behave at birthday parties so it makes complete sense and I don’t think she’s exaggerating.

What do I do? I approached a mum when it first started last year (me and this mum are v close) and she her response “they’re just girls and it will get worse when they get older”. She’s literally proudly raising a little bully brat of a child.

How do I approach this? The school in the past have been dismissive and say they’ve not noticed anything but I’m tempted to speak to the head directly and demand this to be taken seriously. It’s borderline if not actual bullying and maybe that mum is right, it will get worse UNLESS it stops now.

[quote Mamabearwhere]@Rosebuud my dd couldn’t hurt a fly and is terrified of authority or getting in trouble so I don’t know how to teach her to be more tough or stand up for herself. If you have tips please share. She says if she says something to these girls then “they’ll tell on me to the teacher” which is obv nonsense. I don’t deny that I have work to do from my part on teaching her resilience and bravery. Up to now I’ve taught her to be kind and caring and treat others how she wants to be treated. That’s got her well in front of the teachers and she’s academically very high achieving but has backfired socially as she can’t stand up to unkindness.[/quote]
Why is she “terrified” of authority or getting into trouble? She should have a healthy respect for authority but never be terrified.

You need to tell her and teach her to stand up for herself. So the first time kids say you can’t sit there, she should learn to laugh and walk away. And not try again. To make a pithy remark if she’s brave enough, to show them she doesn’t care. Teach her how to handle the situation. To go and find the kids who are alone, or who it’s only a couple of kids. There are always outliers.

And talk to her about why she’s terrified of authority, that the teachers are there to help her. But that these are her peers and if they don’t want to sit with her or play with her, then she never wastes her time again.

It’s sadly part of growing up, she will meet people like this all her life.

I feel for you and your DD...it sounds absolutely horrible. I am however amazed that you thought a private school would mean a kinder environment.

@Rosebuud you seem to have zero idea about kids who are shy, gentle etc. You can't just change them it doesn't work like that.

Your idea of encouraging other friendships is the best.

And speaking to the head so the bullying etc stops.

And yes unfortunately v common with girls. Reaches a crescendo at puberty 11/12. Then they all start their periods and stop being quite so horrid. You will even find former enemies becoming best friends, etc. The periods are a great leveller.

Girls are really mean it was around in year 2, faded for a while and came back with a vengeance in yrs 4 & 5. DD learned lots of lessons around friendship and trust. The teachers kept a good eye on it.

I think it’s time to speak to the school, they can help smooth some of this stuff

Meant to put it’s fine…

Thanks for the suggestions @Rosebuud some valuable points and I have had various chats with her this weekend. It’s interesting actually how much we assume our children will know to do naturally versus how much you need to teach/break down for them. Or maybe every child is different and mine is too kind.

For anyone who’s child been through similar and you spoke to the school, what was the plan of action and what did the school actually do to help the child?

My DD experienced similar at about that age. One girl persuaded my DD to do things, and then got her into trouble for it. For example, my DD had to dig up a stone from a border with her bare hands, and then the ‘friend’ mentioned it to the lunchtime supervisor… We managed this one ourselves by coaching DD in how to respond in such a way as to highlight this person’s behaviour without being rude (eg by saying “Is that a kind thing to ask someone to do?” or just a light “No thanks” with a shrug, and walking off.) Fortunately, this issue fizzled out as the other child lost interest in my DD.

Later the same year, the same child also kept a tally of which friends had been nice to her that day. At the end of the day, the friends with the most ticks was given a present! We found out about the latter issue on the day of parents’ evening, so it was a convenient opportunity to show the teacher the ‘present’ (drawing) that my DD had been given by this friend, and also explain the situation. That teacher was particularly perceptive to this sort of sneaky behaviour, so was quick to move children about in the classroom, have a word with the child in question and reassure my DD.

My DD is now in Y6, and reports that this girl is perfectly nice and kind now. So I think these ‘mean’ behaviours are sometimes just phases where a child is trying to make sense of the world and influence those around them to make their own lives happier/easier. With good influences from school and home, these phases can just pass. Of course, that doesn’t stop it being very ‘real’ for your DD just now, and it is appropriate to speak to the class teacher in the first instance, and be prepared to escalate if necessary.

Heartbreaking. I think that it can be difficult for children to navigate the ups and downs of friendships. But as much as they need to learn resilience, they also need to learn kindness. It is ok for those girls to not want to be friends, it is not ok to be unkind. I would definitely be speaking to the teacher.

The same happened to my daughter starting in y2, the teacher also dismissed everything and said they are only 7 they don't know what they are doing, but they were very smart children and I think they knew exactly what they were doing and whom they were doing it to. This was at a very academic girls' prep school. The teacher (young, no children) said my daughter had to toughen up and stop seeing the glass half-empty. Great!

I moved DD to a non-selective co-ed prep after where she was much happier. Now going through 11+ and applying to "well-rounded" co-ed schools only, have been put off academic girls' schools due to the experience.

That's not to say there aren't many girls for who it works well, but if you see your daughter unhappy in this environment, I would check if there are kinder environments for her.

Read Cats Eye by Margaret Atwood. She nails little girl cruelty and the powerlessness of mothers in their world.

What you can do? Approach the school. Build her up to be confident and not afraid to walk away. Dh deals with conflict professionally and was great at advising on this. Dd2 would read alone in the library or hang out with the boys. If you remove yourself entirely you take away their power. Appreciate this is hard but it’s the longing to fit in and to keep your friends that empowers them and enables the bad treatment.

Oh and I have an utter fear of small classes which some trumpet as a good thing. My poor sister was trapped for years at primary with 2 other girls one who was a nutter frankly. A good deep friendship pool is needed. At least 12 girls. Then if it goes wrong she has other options.

@MsTSwift

Oh and I have an utter fear of small classes which some trumpet as a good thing. My poor sister was trapped for years at primary with 2 other girls one who was a nutter frankly. A good deep friendship pool is needed. At least 12 girls. Then if it goes wrong she has other options.

Agree. My DD is in a class of 30 but it's very boy heavy so she has a tiny pool of girls to be friends with. It's been quite tricky at times.

It’s not necessarily bullying at this age. Sometimes it’s as simple as these kids are getting bored too easily and so need others to play games ‘properly’ and get really frustrated if they don’t & can often be a sign of high IQ. The primary needs to understand why it’s happening and support the children accordingly. It’s not up to the parents because they may not even see those behaviours at home.

Agree. Sadly I think it’s a developmental stage as they jostle for position and learn how to deal with others and how to handle power if they have it.

Also never be smug - you really don’t know how your “lovely girl” is at school to her peers…! Most will end up perfectly nice in the end. Joys of parenting…

Right. Having been through this with my eldest DD who is now a well balanced teenager, you have to teach her resilience.

Sometimes a class just has this weird dynamic among the girls. For example eldest DD had a lot of this behaviour in her primary class and youngest DD never had this among the girls in her class.

First you should email the head with concrete examples. It is bullying by exclusion. Doesn't matter that it's 7 year olds so ignore comments along that line.

Secondly you have to coach your Dd to understand some girls are like this. She shouldn't be unkind but she should try to widen her friendship group away from the more difficult kids. She has to learn resilience without being chipped away so she has no self-esteem. It's such a hard line to walk though. But constant reminders that really it is nothing to do with her but more the personality issues (low confidence usually) in the girls doing this. The more she tries to be friends with these girls the more they'll exclude her.

My DD a was also quiet, extremely kind, wouldn't ever say anything horrid to anyone and very empathetic so it was a long road getting her to understand toxic friendships. Now she looks back at her primary 'friends' and sees them for what they are she has done wonderful friends now and a real strength inside.

It sounds like I was your DD in primary school. I never knew from one day to the next whether my 'friends' would be talking to me or not. The ringleader would tell everyone in the class not to talk to me until she said they could (and they all obeyed because she was terrifying 😬)

School were useless at dealing with it (but this was a state school in a poor area in the 1980s).

The only thing that eventually worked was my mum telling me not to let them see that their behaviour affected me. And to play them at their own game a little bit. So when I was told that I was allowed to play with them again (after two weeks of being totally ignored) - I said no, I wasn't bothered and that I didn't want to be friends with the ringleader anyway. Cue much drama and the ringleader in floods of tears wanting to be my BFF. It never happened again. I was probably year 5 or 6 by this point and it had been happening all through juniors.

I was your daughter and also have www.goodtherapy.org/blog/more-than-thin-skinned-rejection-sensitive-dysphoria-1130197

If you can help her to learn to stand up to this, you will teach her valuable skills. Are there other friends she can make? I know it's hard for both of you. I wish I had been taught to stand up for myself better. It would have avoided a near lifetime of bullying.

I've written about this before but I find this in the local parks as well telling ds 3yo that he can't use the slide or stand there or go past them. It might be because they are playing a game but not realising that the game they are playing is blocking the whole play frame or they behave like that because they think it's ok and never been challenged. Quite often the parents sit there doing nothing where I had to vocally remind them that the play frame belongs to everyone and ds wants to use the equipment, not join their game. Most of them have been fine once they are reminded but I can only imagine how it's like in schools especially with friendships. I think with teachers reminding them and parents noticing this sort of behaviour and reminding them, they will reason and see that this sort of behaviour is being mean and is unacceptable.

Why don't you stop wasting money on private school?

@Chickenkatsu

Why don't you stop wasting money on private school?

What an utterly pointless comment.

I will speak to the head next week. I have been asking myself what outcome i expect from them though. I’ve also been having gentle convos with my dd to explain that she doesn’t need friends like these and asked her who else she’d like to be friends with so I can maybe set up play dates etc.

You want them to deal with the bullying. Being unkind and then stopping other children from playing with her is bullying, pure and simple. It is bad behaviour that the school need to deal with.

They also should be supporting the children in their social development - this isn't making kids having particular friends but helping them navigate. So ask them how they can help her.

Personally I don't really think playdates are the answer - but may help a bit.

OP, in answer to your question, when I approached the class teacher and then the Head, neither did anything more than 'speak to the girls'. This had absolutely no effect. I wasn't satisfied, to say the least, so I moved her to the local state primary at the end of year 4 which worked out extremely well.

Some of the problem in my case was that several of the girls in question had siblings at the school and I suspect that the Head didn't want to upset these families and potentially lose 2 or 3 sets of fees.