Ken Prep Vs Putney High Juniors

[Rainbows18]

We are very lucky , my DD was offered a places in Ken Prep and PHS. My daughter is rather shy and sensitive but extremely curious and loves to be challenged. The fact that PHS is going is all through is very appealing, but I think Ken Prep seems very strong academically and the school is smaller, fwd thinking and creative.
I would very grateful for any advice and thoughts. Thank you.

@AnotherNewt

Ken Prep is not the type of school a girl from state primary school goes to in Year 4

That's quite a shocking indictment for the school.

The school is selective, and chose that girl. If the pastoral care is so weak that a pupil they have selected ends up so miserable her family feel they have to move her, then that is bad. And is definitely underperformance in comparison to other preps.

Just my opinion @AnotherNewt

Just seems odd decision to send in year 4 when the school main intake is reception. I'd say that about any school whose main intake is reception and has no Year 3 entry never mind Year 4.

The DC would have been accepted on random vacancy, entering a cohort where they all knew each other since Reception. I wouldn't do that for my DD, that's all.

Most of the top preps intake is reception or 7+, not Year 4.

@AnotherNewt I had to laugh at that daft comment. Of course I am asking why THEY took my precious child ? Surely.

So many children go to the top indies from state primaries and the teaching at many state primary schools is mostly excellent.

In fact one of the 12 or so girls who did exceptionally well at KPS also moved over from a state primary in year 4 and many girls who did prep from start did really badly. SO NO NOTHING TO DO WITH COMING FROM A STATE. In fact she was average in that strong cohort according to results given when she sat their tests

Look, I expected better teaching ( especially in Maths which just did not exist for my daughter), pastoral care and more of a personal approach in choosing and targeting schools. It was a very overrated school for us. They take bright girls from educated families where parents and expect them or tutors to do much of the work. Can see why they would become complacent but they really shouldn't because people will speak up.

@sanam2019 agree. Saw quite a few Putney girls at open days in Hammersmith.
Anyway my choice would be Putney ( going by experience) but either one you choose you can always move a few years down the line as you have plenty of time before secondary.
Best of Luck x

[quote eglantine7]@AnotherNewt I had to laugh at that daft comment. Of course I am asking why THEY took my precious child ? Surely.

So many children go to the top indies from state primaries and the teaching at many state primary schools is mostly excellent.

In fact one of the 12 or so girls who did exceptionally well at KPS also moved over from a state primary in year 4 and many girls who did prep from start did really badly. SO NO NOTHING TO DO WITH COMING FROM A STATE. In fact she was average in that strong cohort according to results given when she sat their tests

Look, I expected better teaching ( especially in Maths which just did not exist for my daughter), pastoral care and more of a personal approach in choosing and targeting schools. It was a very overrated school for us. They take bright girls from educated families where parents and expect them or tutors to do much of the work. Can see why they would become complacent but they really shouldn't because people will speak up.

@sanam2019 agree. Saw quite a few Putney girls at open days in Hammersmith.
Anyway my choice would be Putney ( going by experience) but either one you choose you can always move a few years down the line as you have plenty of time before secondary.
Best of Luck x[/quote]
For the record I was questioning an 8 year old going into super selective prep whose main intake is 4+. I wasn't slagging off state primaries. I wouldn't pull my DD from state primary to go to Ken Prep at 8.

As another poster said, '' I think coming from state into an academic prep is hard, especially as late as Y4. ''

That is all.

OK I see what you mean, but it does sound quite rude because obviously I live with regret for having moved her there. On the other hand have known children go to other preps at year 5 from a state school and did incredibly well.
One of daughter's friends at KPS moved in year 4 also and did exceptionally well and there were girls there who had started from age 4 and were utterly miserable and felt as let down as me.
Your comment was judgemental and quite unnecessary.

I’d go with a Putney if you’d be happy to live there all things being equal to avoid the 11+

The difference between a school like Putney and SPGs is just down to small differences in how selective they are. Don’t let league tables blind you. Base it on the pastoral care and ethos that feels like the best fit for your family. If your daughter is SPGS material she’s likely to achieve just as well at Putney.

@sanam2019

You are right - I forgot about FH - which did do a better job than other preps in lockdown. It even managed to get Y5 kids back in the summer when all the other schools were too scared to do so.
It doesn’t change the fact that in the past couple years most other preps struggled.
As did kids who weren’t all able to learn or focus on prep in the way they’d be in school.
And random and last minute changes to 11+ last year had greatly affected results.

These threads - specifically about PH vs academic preps (G, FH, B) pop up regularly. And I think it’s because 11+ really scares parents of kids that are about to start reception. We look at our little girls and want to protect them from stress and big bad world. And of course, horror stories of kids who struggled at the exam times scare people. But, at the same time - lots kids take these exams year after year, majority don’t break down, and largely end up in schools that suit them best.
Staying in one school from 4-18 is quite limiting for anyone’s development. IMHO.

I do think it’s important to give girls opportunities. And an able girl will do really well surrounded by other able girls. Selective preps in K&C get the top pick of the girls they are ready to learn at a good pace. Of course no school is best for every child. None is perfect and provides ideal tailored approach we all want and in some way expect.

If a selective academic prep sees potential in your girl - why not give her a chance? Prep school is 7 years long. If some point you see your child is struggling with the pace - one can always move to a less challenging environment.
And this is what happens around Y3 - some people leave the top preps and move to PH, Harrodian, etc. Moving that way is easier than the other way around.

@jsku what do you see as the benefit of going to SPGS versus Putney High, really?

A child who could gain entry to both will do academically very well in either and have exposure to a similar breadth of co-curricular opportunities. SPGS is more selective but any top school (like Putney) can support a bright child achieve their full potential.

I think league tables and the associated desire for prestige drives a lot of decision making more so than any true benefit for the children.

The queue for the exams at Putney Junior were huge! When we went for the assessment ( blind, we didn't prepare her for this or KPS, she had ability for those who doubt it and I would not have put her forward if I don't think she was capable). Lots of girls in smart prep uniforms and a smattering of state school girls like mine.
We were very lucky to get a place and very stupid to turn it down.
In contrast, loads of places come up throughout the years in KPS. So many families voluntarily leave. They even had a handful of ex pat girls who they took just before the 11 plus exams.
Our thinking was the same, less so about " aiming higher" but more so we would get a chance to explore secondary options and decide. Huge mistake! Actually we didn't get a lot of choice because we had such a disastrous experience there!
Our daughter was not someone who needed extra attention or nurturing. She was a bold, quietly confident child who loved giving everything a ho. She became a shell of her former self while at KPS. Thankfully she bounced back as soon as she left.

@eglantine7 its a shame your daughter had such bad experience. Do you think she would have had a different experience at KP if she were at KP since reception?

[quote SouthLondonMommy]**@jsku what do you see as the benefit of going to SPGS versus Putney High, really?

A child who could gain entry to both will do academically very well in either and have exposure to a similar breadth of co-curricular opportunities. SPGS is more selective but any top school (like Putney) can support a bright child achieve their full potential.

I think league tables and the associated desire for prestige drives a lot of decision making more so than any true benefit for the children.[/quote]
I don't think anyone is saying SPGS is better than PHS, @jsku is saying why not give the girl the choice?

Which I agree with.

@eglantine7

I don't know your personal situation, so I apologise for my comment for moving your DD in Year 4, and as I said on the post, I am glad your DD is happy now.

@sanam2019

I don't fiercely believe in KP, I just fiercely believe in choice and whether a stand alone state primary or prep, I think these junior schools provide better options over a 4-18 school. It's just my personal opinion.

As the other poster says moving from a prep in Y3 or 11+ seems to me the better option than trying to move in the junior branch of an all through school.

Appreciate everyone has a different game plan for their DD and they like the 4-18 model.

Don't get sucked into the West London arms race. If you take the place at Putney you will get a great education for your daughter and have the choice of:

A) ignoring the whole 11+ craziness

Or

B) if your daughter is clever enough to get into the "top" schools you can choose to do 11+ anyway and tutor like the rest of the elite cohort

Don't listen to anyone who tells you that a certain school is what gets you prepped for "top choices".

My daughter is a year 6 Bute House girl - I say this from a place of knowledge.

Or do what you want. Either way will be FINE. Trust me.

@DilettanteMum

It's interesting you and a few other posters all chose a 4-11 prep over 4-18 schools, but wouldn't advise the OP to do the same.

Is this because its KP and part of the 'West London arms race' or because you believe 4-18 is a better starting block than 4-11 ?

Not trying to make a point or anything, it's just trying to understand if the sentiment here is against the selective clique of girls elite preps (the arms race) or the principle of all through education is the best for reception?

There seems to be two arguments going on here.

@namethattunein1 you still have choice at a through school if its not the ideal long-term fit. You can change at 11 or 16 which isn't unusual. However, unlike in a prep, you have a secure place so that moving is a nice to have option rather than a high pressured situation.

Personally I can't see that there is any value in going to a prep over a through school and I can't see there is any material quality different in outcomes for a bright girl between a school like Putney or SPGS etc.

For schools of this calibre the choice should really be down to ethos and convenience. All being equal on those aspects, the through school is the obvious choice in my opinion.

[quote namethattunein1]@DilettanteMum

It's interesting you and a few other posters all chose a 4-11 prep over 4-18 schools, but wouldn't advise the OP to do the same.

Is this because its KP and part of the 'West London arms race' or because you believe 4-18 is a better starting block than 4-11 ?

Not trying to make a point or anything, it's just trying to understand if the sentiment here is against the selective clique of girls elite preps (the arms race) or the principle of all through education is the best for reception?

There seems to be two arguments going on here.[/quote]
Why do you assume I chose Bute over a through school?

We applied to two preps in our immediate area and to state. She got into Bute on the reception ballot.

We didn't apply to any through schools because there weren't any in our radar.

We didn't choose Bute because we thought it would give us an in at SPGS etc... Yes of course it's a great school and does a good job of getting girls ready for 11+ but what made us want to send our daughter there was the feel and ethos and the overall potential experience.

Having been through the whole prep process and the 11+ grinder I think I have a balanced perspective on how insane it can get. I am simply trying to offer a bit of perspective here. Not every girl is top 3 school material - and sometimes having a guaranteed place at the next tier is a pretty nice place to be in. If the girls want to stretch and try for something else being at Putney will in NO WAY stop them from doing that.

Do you work for KP admissions or something?

I did t mean that list but in a nasty way fyi...forgot to add the wink

Last BIT

At the Putney junior open day which took place on a day before the assessments one of the year 6 mums said all the girls from that year had passed and would progress to the seniors. What a lovely reassurance to have!
In contrast to the hellish uncertainty of the 11 plus.
I think anyone who has been through the process would come out saying that.
Also year 5 and 6 in a prep effectively disrupt your child's education.
Far less scary to do it from an all through school or a state school with a tutor once a week focusing on your child.

Girl don't post your phone number on a public form! Send a private message!

I think she meant to PM 😮😄
But highly recommebd speaking to current and former parents to get a truer picture. It's a big decision and I went into it all completely clueless 🥴

Was an accident. I had meant to send a PM but hit the wrong button on my phone and mumsnet has no function to delete posts! Have emailed mumsnet asking to take down and the thread owner to hide my post. Nightmare! Please don’t spam me lol

@lamamama22

Was an accident. I had meant to send a PM but hit the wrong button on my phone and mumsnet has no function to delete posts! Have emailed mumsnet asking to take down and the thread owner to hide my post. Nightmare! Please don’t spam me lol

[quote SouthLondonMommy]@namethattunein1 you still have choice at a through school if its not the ideal long-term fit. You can change at 11 or 16 which isn't unusual. However, unlike in a prep, you have a secure place so that moving is a nice to have option rather than a high pressured situation.

Personally I can't see that there is any value in going to a prep over a through school and I can't see there is any material quality different in outcomes for a bright girl between a school like Putney or SPGS etc.

For schools of this calibre the choice should really be down to ethos and convenience. All being equal on those aspects, the through school is the obvious choice in my opinion.[/quote]
@SouthLondonMommy

I understand and it makes perfect sense, as you put it, 'A nice to have' option, avoiding the 11+ scrum.

I think there are some parents like me that just aren't worried about the 11+ scrum, (foolish I know) I think in part that's due to me having a dream we'll up sticks and leave London or the UK one day, we like to have our options as wide as poss. We also wouldn't see it as a fate worse than death if she ended up a state school that was merely 'good', or even 'needs improving' if she had tried her best for the schools best for her abilities, then she's fulfilled our wishes for her. So in other words there is no 'failure' for us, just doing our best.

@DilettanteMum

That makes sense, the through schools aren't everywhere and well done with the ballot, your DD is a very lucky girl.

I've read on other threads Bute parents saying they are not immune to the 11+ pressure despite the school having a rep for good care, etc . So again, I understand although at a 4-11 prep, you see the benefit of placing early.

No KP commision unfortunately... It's not even a school I'd consider for my DD, I'm in the outer leafy suburbs and not sophisticated enough for the Central/ West London set, not before 11+ anyway

@eglantine7

I am sorry your daughter had such a bad time. However, it’s not something that can be universally protected to every child, which you seem to be doing.
I have been through 11+ twice.
And no - I do not wish I’d tried to plan for the worst and picked a 2nd tier secondary all through school at the age of 4.
I think I if you polled parents who have been through 11+ - their opinion would differ depending on how well their kids did Vs parents expectations.

My elder has moved from one academic prep to another in Y3. She was a shy and sensitive child. By Y6 she was robust and ready for the exams. (I was a mess). She was not tutored, but I did extra practice with her in Y6.

So -eglantine7 - i know it’s hard to hear other opinions and experiences - but you really were unlucky. Moving from state at Y4, or even another prep can be tricky.

She is at the school that is right for her.
Someone asked further up if there is a difference between PH and SPGS. There is, of course.
It’s not necessarily all good or bad. At PH her experience would be different. She’d possibly not be working as hard, and things would be easy for her. At SPGS she doesn’t get to coast. She is not special, just one of many bright girls. Whether or not it’s good, I don’t know. But I do know she is interested and engaged.
So for now it’s the best school for her academically. It may not be for A-levels as it doesn’t offer some of the STEM subjects she is interested in, so she might have to move.

My younger DD was at one prep and then followed her big sister to secondary. It was easier with her as I knew how to help her.