Private - is it worth it if you can?

[Porthia]

Long story short we are trying to decide whether to keep kids in state (good / outstanding small primary - lovely school community which they are very happy at but which we have some concerns about in terms of their progress with core subjects like maths) or move to an equally small, well regarded single sex local prep school.

We can just about afford the fees and we would probably cancel the maths tuition we had booked which saves some £££ but it’s not like we are multi-millionaires where this money is nothing. We will have to budget really carefully and probably not have much in the way of anything to put into savings for the next few years.

Kids are aged 6 and 9.

We live in a grammar school area. That’s by no means the be all and end all but we probably couldn’t afford private secondary. However even if they didn’t pass 11+ would a few years private schooling give them more confidence etc in their abilities?

I feel really torn. We are a really active part of current school community so I also feel really guilty about even thinking of another school! I know it doesn’t matter what other people think but that’s how I am.

I also think people will think we are super rich - I realise that compared to some of course we are but it’s not like we are earning millions and school fees can be found in the change down the back of the sofa. It would put more pressure on my career in particular and would mean we can’t do some work that we had planned to do to the house. Nothing urgent but some cosmetic stuff.

I just don’t know what to do for the best and I’m sick of the indecision!

I should say, the main attraction of private is small class sizes - 20ish instead of 30ish plus just enormous resources for both core subjects and extra curricular opportunities- sport, drama etc.

Maybe for the one aged 6, can't see the worth in the one aged 9 whose almost out the door.

9 isn't a natural age to start prep, all the kids will be bonded and looking forward to 11+. Be better to keep where is and tutor for 11+ grammar entry- to be honest that's the sensible option for the 6 year old, unless you have selective indie schools around, but how will pay for that? Do you qualify for bursaries?

Prep fees to have a shot at grammar is crazy, save it for tutors and out of school sports and coaching and cultural trips.

I would keep in state as well and happy which is key:

Use saved money for a tutor?

Tutor?

Thanks for the reply. That is also what I’ve been thinking. It’s the 9 year old who has particular issues with maths which is why I’m considering it but I hear what you’re saying.

It isn’t just to get a shot at grammar. It’s more about building confidence. But maybe it’s crazy to even consider!

The fact both are happy at state is probably good enough reason to keep there I guess… I would feel weird about sending one and not the other I think but as you say not so much value for the 9 year old and potentially big disruption

I would be concerned about the culture shift from prep back to state not sure this would necessarily help confidence if they are definitely state for secondary.

Would probably put the money towards tutoring an extracurricular activities, holidays abroad etc

I'm a primary teacher. Not that it matters but I also have a 2.5 DS and new baby. We will be sending them to a state primary - again like you - with good/outstanding reports. I truly think that primary education is much of a muchness.

Secondary school is different. Larger catchment areas and too much of a melting pot. From personal experience, I grew up in a beautiful big house in an affluent area and my high school was full of.. well, scumbags. I know this isn't the case for all. But private secondary schools offer much more at a time when I feel it's really necessary.

My children will most definitely be going to a private secondary school. But a state primary.

Thank you all! I’ve been speaking to some friends who are concerned about the current school and I’ve been spiralling a bit. I’ve gone so far as to arrange for them to have a taster / assessment day but then have got really stressed about whether it’s the right thing, whether we can afford it, whether they will be massively disrupted for nothing.

I can’t get the money back for the taster / assessment day but perhaps it is all madness.

Private secondary is getting on for double the cost of prep - not sure that would be doable for more than 1 child max.

Also they are selective - it’s quite hard to get in if you haven’t been to prep I believe

@Porthia

Thank you all! I’ve been speaking to some friends who are concerned about the current school and I’ve been spiralling a bit. I’ve gone so far as to arrange for them to have a taster / assessment day but then have got really stressed about whether it’s the right thing, whether we can afford it, whether they will be massively disrupted for nothing.

I can’t get the money back for the taster / assessment day but perhaps it is all madness.

If its more than a feeling and you're doing this, then by all means go for it. I would personally ask for a meeting with the prep and explain your situation , see what they say, make your expectations clear.

You have nothing to lose by collaring in the head of the primary and reading them the riot act with our eldest. Make sure each school knows your ambitions of grammar school - you're going to be up against ruthless parents trying to get their DC in , so you have to be the same I'm afraid.

Following with interest. We’re not in a grammar area and ‘state ‘til 8’ is the watchword among friends. Ours are still small and we have a v low 6 fig household income, but paying for private full time nursery for 2 is actually more expensive than state primary would be and we’re managing that, so part of me wonders why not…

Thank you.

The head of the primary is lovely but tends to say whatever needs to be said but then not change anything….

I actually don’t especially have ambitions of grammar. I believe it’s really important to get the right school for the right child o I don’t want to tutor my kids to get into a school that won’t be right for them. You can’t teach a fish to climb trees. It’s more about helping them find what they are good at and encouraging those strengths while making sure something core (like maths) isn’t letting them down. I want to make sure they have the opportunity to try different things and to believe that they are good enough to try anything. At the moment my eldest thinks she is crap at maths so doesn’t try.

So I would be ok with her going to the non grammar state secondary if that’s the right school for her but I want her to do the best for her if that makes sense. And that means having the support and confidence to give things a try and see what she is great at.

I’m leaning towards doing the assessment day since I’ve already paid for it in a moment of madness (I do actually suffer from anxiety and I don’t think that’s helping the ruminating, circular thinking, worrying etc) - I will see what the school thinks, what my DC think and then make a decision. But I’m leaning less towards sending them at this point than I was earlier.

It depends where you are. Our prep often has children joining in year 4 and 5 specifically to help them prep for secondary entry, either private or grammar.

Financially, we make sacrifices to afford the fees and many others do too. There are some very wealthy families, but there are many who budget carefully, live in smaller houses, have help from grandparents etc.

@Porthia

Thank you.

The head of the primary is lovely but tends to say whatever needs to be said but then not change anything….

I actually don’t especially have ambitions of grammar. I believe it’s really important to get the right school for the right child o I don’t want to tutor my kids to get into a school that won’t be right for them. You can’t teach a fish to climb trees. It’s more about helping them find what they are good at and encouraging those strengths while making sure something core (like maths) isn’t letting them down. I want to make sure they have the opportunity to try different things and to believe that they are good enough to try anything. At the moment my eldest thinks she is crap at maths so doesn’t try.

So I would be ok with her going to the non grammar state secondary if that’s the right school for her but I want her to do the best for her if that makes sense. And that means having the support and confidence to give things a try and see what she is great at.

I’m leaning towards doing the assessment day since I’ve already paid for it in a moment of madness (I do actually suffer from anxiety and I don’t think that’s helping the ruminating, circular thinking, worrying etc) - I will see what the school thinks, what my DC think and then make a decision. But I’m leaning less towards sending them at this point than I was earlier.

You sound like a great parent.

Go to the taster day, if all of you are buzzing, just go for it. If you're not too tiger about them going to grammar and just want them to be happy and pushed to be the best they can, then your gut instinct for prep may be the best way.

Especially for the younger one, but the prep should be able to work on the eldest and at least bring him up to a standard you're both happy with. My earlier post about Prep not being worth it for grammar was only meant as a means to an end. If the prep is simply to give them a better schooling experience , then by all means go for it, they are lucky kids to have a parent willing to do that.

We're in a similar area and imo, I echo the above poster. If it's about the general school experience and not so much about 11+ prep, then I'd see what the private had to offer. Also consider what they would be losing if they moved.

I feel state school + a good tutor is better overall, and for the 11+. Most state primaries are generally of good quality imo. Our area has tonnes of good and outstanding primaries, but it completely tanks after that stage. DS is in a lovely state school with great staff, kids, and opportunities to learn. But it would never offer enough prep for the 11+. A tutor (group is enough) is needed unless that kid was particularly exceptional. Many kids in your child's prep class will be there to prep for 11+ or private school entrance exams. Some will be there just because their parents want them to go private, but not necessarily selective, for secondary school. It's good to have in mind what your options are for secondary school before putting your DC in this kind of school. I say this because my uncle did this with my cousin, and she ended up just sitting silently in her classes because going from a small private primary to a large comprehensive was overwhelming.

It’s really dependant on the actual schools in questions if they are “worth” it. Not all preps and state primaries are equal.
What is the value add of sending them to a prep? Is it to secure a grammar place? If so, that’s a reasonable choice to make. If it’s to continue in a state senior school than I’d question if it’s worth it. Look at the leavers destinations of the Prep and see if they align with the plans you have for your DC

Good considerations.

So, if I could pick then yes I would choose to send DC to one of the grammar schools. But I guess what I’m saying is that it isn’t the only reason I would send to the prep.

The prep we are looking at has a 77% 11+ pass rate and about 50% go to grammar with the others going to private secondaries and a handful to the local state secondary. So that’s great but it is not the only reason I would send them there because I don’t agree with pushing kids to perform unnaturally at the 11+ and then end up struggling.

At the moment it’s mainly because I am worried that eldest is tanking in maths and that makes me concerned for what else might be going on. She loves school and is bright so I feel like she could be encouraged to do more and be more confident in her ability.

Younger child just gets negative feedback about “making good choices” because she is very bubbly and extroverted but nowhere to channel that in terms of drama etc.

IMO if you put them in private now without being able to keep them there for secondary AND they didn’t get in a grammar they’d be eaten alive in the secondary comp.

Keep them where they are if they’re happy and top up with tutoring if you really think that this is needed.

Thanks that’s what I am leaning towards.

I think it will stress me out a lot having them in private tbh. I’m already driving myself crazy with the back and forth in my head about money, is it worth it, what impact will it have etc. Honestly I feel like I’m going mad!

I have already paid for the assessment day so I guess we should do that but then call it a day

"At the moment it’s mainly because I am worried that eldest is tanking in maths and that makes me concerned for what else might be going on."

I think it's worth thinking carefully about this. Do you think that the reason your DC1 is currently struggling with maths is because the teaching is poor? Are others in the class finding it tough as well? How is the tutoring going? A good tutor should give her confidence and hopefully make the maths fun.

If she does find maths challenging, are you comfortable that the prep school will support her, and that she won't be thrust into an environment full of children that are ahead in maths and being pushed hard for 11+? That could be really demoralising.

I don't have experience of the private sector, but if their current state school is generally ok, secondary grammar not a major focus and you probably can't afford private secondary for two children, I'd have thought that focussing on tutoring for maths (and maybe for other 11+ elements if you want to give grammar a shot and don't want to DIY) would be a better fit.

You could supplement their primary school experience with extra-curricular activities to 'close the gap' in terms of academic and wider enrichment.

Excellent points @LetItGoToRuin!

Other parents have expressed concern too. I believe the main issue is that my daughter is generally middle of the class and so has slipped through the net.

I have signed up to a maths tutor which we are just starting but have been wondering whether private smaller class sizes would make a difference across the board.

I’m leaning towards staying in state but supplementing. I will be interested to hear what the prep school say about her maths though and what they would do to tackle it. Current school day it’s fine, but it isn’t!

I would see how the taster day goes.
I certainly wouldn't rule it out and I would expect there are a number of kids at that private school whose parents sent them there to give them the best chance at 11+
As you are aware grammar isn't the right choice for all children, "average" ones may do better at a less academic school rather than feeling inadequate amongst the high fliers. I have several acquaintances from a mutual hobby we all do who are heads of department at various local grammars and they cannot stress this enough.

I think private secondary is more important than primary so in your position I would NOT pay for private primary. Focus on after school activities and tutoring if required. If you can’t afford private secondary perhaps private 6th form.

@RachelSq

IMO if you put them in private now without being able to keep them there for secondary AND they didn’t get in a grammar they’d be eaten alive in the secondary comp.

Keep them where they are if they’re happy and top up with tutoring if you really think that this is needed.

Jesus Christ, That's a bit dramatic isn't it? Where the hell do you think the OP lives? Downtown Los Angeles hood or something , get a grip woman and step away from the Daily Mail!!

Show me the child of 7 , I will show you the man said Aristotle, meaning do your groundwork with your children when they are very young.

We are pretty backward in this country when it comes to education, we are below so many countries, and all those countries above us have one thing in common, they pay particular attention when the child is very young. We all care about GCSE's and A Level, State till 8 and all that crap- with the implication, nothing really matters until they get into secondary school, which is bollox.

This good parent realizes that, good for them!

Most of the damage to children is done by the time they're 11.

Guess what, most students at Oxford and Cambridge come from state schools for christs sake. If I could only afford prep over senior school, I'd choose prep - smart prep school kids become big fish in state schools , whereas smart state primary have to adjust being very ordinary and to boot poor compared to their peers.

I speak from experience of knowing many many state school teachers in very run down schools, they perform miracles with children who want to learn and have engaged parents.