Private - is it worth it if you can?

[Porthia]

Long story short we are trying to decide whether to keep kids in state (good / outstanding small primary - lovely school community which they are very happy at but which we have some concerns about in terms of their progress with core subjects like maths) or move to an equally small, well regarded single sex local prep school.

We can just about afford the fees and we would probably cancel the maths tuition we had booked which saves some £££ but it’s not like we are multi-millionaires where this money is nothing. We will have to budget really carefully and probably not have much in the way of anything to put into savings for the next few years.

Kids are aged 6 and 9.

We live in a grammar school area. That’s by no means the be all and end all but we probably couldn’t afford private secondary. However even if they didn’t pass 11+ would a few years private schooling give them more confidence etc in their abilities?

I feel really torn. We are a really active part of current school community so I also feel really guilty about even thinking of another school! I know it doesn’t matter what other people think but that’s how I am.

I also think people will think we are super rich - I realise that compared to some of course we are but it’s not like we are earning millions and school fees can be found in the change down the back of the sofa. It would put more pressure on my career in particular and would mean we can’t do some work that we had planned to do to the house. Nothing urgent but some cosmetic stuff.

I just don’t know what to do for the best and I’m sick of the indecision!

If you live in an area with state good schools there is no real need for private education, unless the child has special needs like dyslexia and is not getting help. Private schools that specialize in that type of disability can make a massive difference to a child’s prospects and are well worth considering.

@namethattunein1 (it won’t let me quote you) -

I don’t think it’s that dramatic, unless every comprehensive school I’ve experienced (I’m Northern, so we don’t have the privilege of grammars…) is not representative.

When I was in school there were several ex-private kids join and they were mocked to a crazy extent. Most of the kids from my state primary were too, because we came from the “posh” village.

Things might have changed, or maybe I went to school in Downtown LA, but nothing I say is from reading the Daily Mail.

I’m not a “private pusher” (my son is in state primary, but we might consider private later), I’m just realistic about the practicalities of doing the switch from private to state.

[quote RachelSq]@namethattunein1 (it won’t let me quote you) -

I don’t think it’s that dramatic, unless every comprehensive school I’ve experienced (I’m Northern, so we don’t have the privilege of grammars…) is not representative.

When I was in school there were several ex-private kids join and they were mocked to a crazy extent. Most of the kids from my state primary were too, because we came from the “posh” village.

Things might have changed, or maybe I went to school in Downtown LA, but nothing I say is from reading the Daily Mail.

I’m not a “private pusher” (my son is in state primary, but we might consider private later), I’m just realistic about the practicalities of doing the switch from private to state.[/quote]
So what happened to you years ago as a child, has some bearing on someone else who may live 100's of miles from you??

I say Daily Mail because you seem narrow minded. The OP specifically said her non-grammar state senior schools were OK.

You say you're "realistic " but assume kids coming from a prep are eaten alive by the feral youth at schools that if 7% are at private, and 5% are at grammar, 88% of the country send their kids to!

Laughable.

What happened to you and the ex prep school kids at the comp you were daily mocked? Did you all leave with no qualifications and make nothing of your lives then?

I'm in a 3 tier area so we finish primary school at Year 4, do Years 5 to 8 in Middle School then Years 9-11/13 in High School.

Round here it's common for children to do Primary then join the Prep for Years 5-8 to then move back to the state High School for the remainder of their education so I wouldn't necessarily rule out a move for your 9 year old.

I went to a comprehensive. Unless your local secondary is really nice, it might be a bit of a baptism of fire to go from private to state, if they don't get into the grammar especially if it's in the grammar catchment and the more studious nicely behaved kids have been creamed off.

Thank you all so much. This is really helping!!

I’ve been feeling really overwhelmed by the decision.

We live in a leafy Home Counties town, commuting distance to central London. It’s all 11+ around here - so my DC will know lots of kids going to both grammar and the non-selective secondary - most kids from their current school will go to the non-selective state and some kids from the prep also go there, just a lower number.

You can fall in with the “wrong crowd” at any school. I’m more concerned with making sure they have a strong foundation and self confidence as they head to whichever secondary. It would also be good if they felt like there was something they were especially good at and had been given opportunity to really shine in that area - whether it’s art, drama, sport, academia etc. There are some opportunities at every school but it’s one of the attractions of private that there are more and they have time to support that.

That said, I am leaning towards staying in the state system with supplementary support.

We will do the assessment though nonetheless!

Don’t want to confuse you OP, but we moved from State primary to prep at similar age to your children and it was the best thing we ever did. The schools I have experience of were worlds apart. At our ‘good’ (should be ‘requires improvement’) state primary, DD was always ignored by teachers are “quiet, not a problem, already meets end of year targets.” It is not an exaggeration to say that she never learned anything new in her time at state school. The class behaviour was appalling and the teachers we met were exhausted, bad-tempered and unable to cope.

At prep she has enthusiastic engaged teachers who aren’t overworked and it shows. She is learning, she is also exercising 4 x a week and looks noticeably healthier, and most importantly she is happy and has made far more friends than she had at State where she didn’t seem to click with many of the children. Her speaking voice overnight has become louder and more confident, the class environment is lower pressure and MUCH more civilised in terms of the behaviour she sees around her. Academically she is doing a wider range of subjects in greater depth and regularly practicing skills like how to give a presentation.

There are a handful of rich parents, you can spot them by their beautiful hair and gleaming cars, but the vast majority of parents in our year are those who like us fled the State sector and who like me are best described as scruffy. Most parents plan to go on to grammar school so I think the person upthread who said prep kids will be eaten alive in State secondary school doesn’t know what they’re talking about. The kids who get eaten alive in State (or private) secondary schools are the quiet bright kids with low confidence and that is what State primary was turning DD into.

Do the assessment day, meet as many other children as you can, and form your own judgements. Bottom line is: a great prep is infinitely better than a bad state primary, but an outstanding primary may be better than a rubbish prep… Depends on the schools…

But if your daughter was thriving you wouldn’t be considering moving her so I think you already have your answer there.

Thank you! The current school is a good one although my older child’s class has a reputation for quite being a bit disruptive.

It’s difficult as a parent to know though since I am obviously never actually inside the classroom during lessons!

I cannot compare to state because we went down the private route from 4+ but we have a similar background to you so I will say why we chose private in the end.

DD is confident and we noticed in nursery she was highly motivated in learning. They had recommended from the outset we send her to a private school but we had planned state until the pandemic hit. Following this, the disparity grew significantly and I feared that she would be left to her own devices as, like above PP said, she would be meeting all the end of year targets and not need much further input. My concern was that being left to her own devices would result in her losing the motivation and passion she has for new things if she realised she could happily get by with doing very little.

Her school is fantastic and I love that the children she is with are of similar ability; they all motivate each other to achieve more. The opportunities are fantastic, as is the specialist teaching. There is a huge emphasis on a strong maths and English foundation before progressing onto other things.

While I know more who have started state and then gone private, I also know a fair few who have done the reverse and can say above PP is talking complete nonsense. A good start will instil confidence in their abilities and help them wherever they go.

I also recommend going to the assessment day and finding out more. When going private, it is vital to know what you want from the school and what it is that you are paying for. In our case, it is a very academic school with specialist teaching embedded in the curriculum because that suits our child. I can say without a doubt, her school is not for everyone and many would not like it at all. It suits her though and that is all that matters to us

Pile on the tutoring, musical instruments, interesting holidays, summer camps etc, let them keep their friends. Also, just do loads with them, as an intelligent parent you are their greatest resource. Put the money to one side, and if that's comfortable pay for secondary

[quote RachelSq]@namethattunein1 (it won’t let me quote you) -

I don’t think it’s that dramatic, unless every comprehensive school I’ve experienced (I’m Northern, so we don’t have the privilege of grammars…) is not representative.

When I was in school there were several ex-private kids join and they were mocked to a crazy extent. Most of the kids from my state primary were too, because we came from the “posh” village.

Things might have changed, or maybe I went to school in Downtown LA, but nothing I say is from reading the Daily Mail.

I’m not a “private pusher” (my son is in state primary, but we might consider private later), I’m just realistic about the practicalities of doing the switch from private to state.[/quote]
I actually agree that you might have a point.
DD started Private Secondary in Y7 and some of the DC who had been there since age 3 were very very immature and lacking in “street smarts” to the extent that even now in the large 6th form college the majority of her peers went to some struggle with the size and lack of spoon feeding.
Of course it depends on the respective schools but there ARE some schools round here (also Northern) where I’m not sure some Prep school kids would survive.
OP my advice is to keep them where they are happy and tutor. Save your £ in case they don’t get into Grammar and the State alternative is bad

@Hoppinggreen

With the greatest respect if the Prep is churning out kids who need to be spoon fed and that are very immature , that's a shocking bad prep school, rather than an indictment of private primary schools!

My DD's prep starts at 3, preschool and pre-prep and goes all the way through to 18. Even by 7 these girls know French, do all sorts of drama, ballet, tennis, debating clubs, exotic holidays ( pre-covid!) and exude more confidence than see in many state primary school girls at that age.

It must be a Northern thing, because I don't recognise this AT ALL down here in the South East. ( Where the OP lives).

I don't recognise this 'eaten alive' thing either with friends who have switched for financial reasons from private to state, I've actually heard it more the other way around, state kids entering private and being exposed to the super competitive selective London private schools that attract the offspring of some of the richest people on the planet.

I'd go to the taster day - remember it's a two-way process, so a chance for the school to see your DDs but also a chance for them to experience the school. It's so much easier to make the decision once you have that insight of daily life in the school.

I do think a lot of bright children will end up coasting/get overlooked at state primaries now, as there are so many children with more acute needs especially post-Covid.

If there are particular issues with maths for your eldest DD, have you looked into whether there may be SEN issues (dyscalculia)? A state school is unlikely to investigate it unless it is very severe, so you'd likely need a private EP assessment. Hard to know if it's something that needs more individual intervention, or if the general smaller class/focus in a prep would be enough to make a difference.

If you are just doing it to pass 11+ stick with the tutoring. Especially if you can only just afford the prep school.
Slot of the benefit of private education is in the non academic stuff - art, music, sports. If you see no value in these or are pleased with the provision at the primary school you might as well stay where you are.
Our primary was hopeless for art, music and sport. Sport was running around with bean bags once a week and both of our kids hated it. They are now at a prep school with 1 HR of sports per day by a professional coach playing matches against other schools. Its two leagues above what they were doing before and they both love it so it's worth it to us. Similarly there is a proper art teacher and art club and there are choirs, orchestras etc.

Herimountain makes a good point due to COVID school closures the range in class will be greater than ever and some kids will be way behind.. hence even less time spent on the more able. A friend of mine with 3 kids said her youngest is about a year behind where the other two were at the same age thanks to school closures..

I think it's much harder for the child to transition from orivate to state than state to private. I think once you switch them it has to be for good. Money is better spent later in my opinion.

Both ours did state primary: ds until 8, dd until 11. We supplemented English with theatre, good books and conversation; maths with a tutor. Music lessons and sport, etc.

Have a look at cohorts op and then re-evaluate. I say that because in his year, ds was by far the cleverest boy and we really didn't feel he was stretched, hence the earlier than planned move at 8. DD on the other hand was stretched and we queried if as bright as she wasn't always on top table, etc, therefore she stayed until 11.

It all slots into place now they are grown up. Of DS's cohort - three dc went to Oxbridge/med school; of DD's it was 12.

Ours are grown up now op and I would honestly say that if you have to ask if it's worth it and will have to scrimping it, you can't afford it and need to make the best of the state system. I'll add that ds's fees at 8 were £8k; by the time he was 18 they were £19k.

I would stay in state and get a tutor plus do extra practice with my child myself - short daily maths exercises like times tables and some puzzles (like area mazes book or word problems). Verbal and non verbal reasoning plus timed tests to get her used to exam technique. Do a small bit each day but consistently - even over the holidays.

My mum had no experience of teaching but tutored me for 11+. I think that basically parents can help a lot more with primary school work than secondary.

If they are happy and you are embedded in the community that is a lot to throw away.

Also I have a fear of small classes what if there’s a gender difference and your kid ends up with 5 potential friends and they don’t get on? Big fan of very deep friendship pools!

I would say stay at the state school and pay for tutoring. If a high % of kids pass the 11+ from private primary it doesn't mean it is the school getting the children in, parent's will be tutoring and supplementing on top of the fees. Year 5 is a rambunctious year, a lot of tween behaviour I found, extra curricular hobbies along with out of school support from home or a tutor for any weak subjects help keep confidence levels and self esteem protected.