Shouting teacher

[MamaBee23]

DD is in Y3 & has a very shouty teacher. It has got to the point now where she is coming home from school most days in tears and doesn't want to go to school anymore! I had a meeting with the headteacher who acknowledges said teacher is very firm but that is to prepare them as they are now KS2 . The conversation then turned to that the teacher loses patience because of how disruptive DD is in class and how she apparently doesn't listen, swings on her chair, tries to get the attention of other kids, talks alot etc but this is the first I have heard about it. She has also recently been diagnosed with Dyslexia which I feel possibly explains why she is getting distracted in class. Am I unreasonable to be frustrated at my child getting shouted at? How do I deal with this effectively? Thanks

I would either move schools or really crack down on them....is it possible she has ADHD too? My DD has....not diagnosed until she was 12 but by then, damage had been done to her self esteem thanks to arsey teachers shouting at her.

Signs of ADHD in girls vary but include a messy bedroom/desk, forgetful, can't manage more than one instruction at a time.

They don't need to by "hyper: either....DD isn't. She's mainly attention deficit.

I would talk about looking into that because dyslexia alone isn't a reason for her to be disruptive...if she HAS ADD then they can help her more effectively.

Dyslexia won’t make her swing on her chair. What does DD say about these comments? What is the school doing to improve matters?

@FortunesFave

I would either move schools or really crack down on them....is it possible she has ADHD too? My DD has....not diagnosed until she was 12 but by then, damage had been done to her self esteem thanks to arsey teachers shouting at her.

Signs of ADHD in girls vary but include a messy bedroom/desk, forgetful, can't manage more than one instruction at a time.

They don't need to by "hyper: either....DD isn't. She's mainly attention deficit.

I would talk about looking into that because dyslexia alone isn't a reason for her to be disruptive...if she HAS ADD then they can help her more effectively.

@FortunesFaveThanks for your reply. Yes it is possible and something I have considered but getting the Dyslexia diagnosis was difficult enough. I am worried about her self esteem & want to nip this in the bud whilst shes young so she doesn't have to endure it for the rest of her time at school. She is super messy and it's something we always joke about. I didn't realise that was a possible trait of ADHD. We have noticed that if we have conversations with her she will randomly start talking about something completely different or if someone is talking she will interrupt and talk over them and sometimes it's like she doesn't even realise she has done it. I definitely want her to get the support she needs. Just feel like I have to prepare myself (and her) for battle...again

@Wolfiefan

Dyslexia won’t make her swing on her chair. What does DD say about these comments? What is the school doing to improve matters?

@Wolfiefan - School seem to be more focused on DD's behaviour as oppose to the fact she hates school because of her teacher shouting so offering sticker charts etc. DD says she doesn't swing on her chair and she only talks to people when they talk to her but the teacher always shouts at her for it.

It sounds like you’re making excuses and in denial about your child’s poor behaviour. Aside from dyslexia, she doesn’t have any other diagnosed SEN. Please don’t try and force another diagnosis if you don’t genuinely believe she has it. Try and work with the school but also your dd needs to improve her behaviour by the sounds of it. I do agree with you though that I wouldn’t like a teacher shouting at my dc all day. Are you sure though that your dd isn’t just getting told off and she is perceiving it as being shouted at when she isn’t?

You’ll find a lot of teachers are unaware of dyslexic tendencies, and have very little training. Those I’ve spoken to suggest it’s about letters being backward and can’t read.

Neither are completely true!! When I’ve said are they XYZ? They usually surprised that’s a sign of dyslexics.

The not being focused, the need to cause issues in class, etc - whilst they do do this, there are coping strategies teachers can put into place to keep them on track - and I don’t mean colour paper or reading rulers!

Things like word banks, visual timetables, written instructions on the board or in front of the child, breaks, step by step instruction rather than full on teacher talking without and physical breaks or example - everyone write the date - teach - talking partners, physical or practical example, write learning objective, more teaching - work

Rather than teach

Now

Write the date
Write to learning objective
Write a story

A lot of dyslexics can’t follow 10 instructions at once and will then mess about!! I’ve seen it happen

Have a look and ask what training is given

If your DD now knows that you've been told she does this and that in class then I think first call is for her to turn it round on other people.
So you really need to find out/understand what is happening in class.
Is it the teacher being arsey? Is it DD misbehaving?
You need to find out facts. So from said teacher, any TAs in class etc.

I don't like shouty, very firm teachers. Yr3 is especially young. I'm not sure what you can realistically do though apart from move schools. Is there another class she could go in? I would probably keep addressing the issue with the teacher at the gate or whenever you get an opportunity to speak to them. Then follow up with head / deputy if it doesn't improve.

This is unacceptable. Teachers should not be shouting at children. It is damaging and not how the profession works these days. I say this as a teacher of 27 years in a secondary school in an area of deprivation in a big city. Behaviour can be challenging at times, but without exception the situation is resolved far better and with relationships intact by remaining calm and clear. All behaviour is communication: if your DD is showing behaviour that needs addressed it needs to be understood WHY she is behaving as such and given support.

Shouting like this, particularly in primary school, is not acceptable. My own DC3 has adhd and asd and I will not tolerate him being shouted at- it's upsetting for him and counter productive. I've not had issue yet but I would be asking for a meeting ASAP if I had.

After being a totally hands off parent with 2 very academic, traditionally well behaved children, now teens, ive had to fight for everything with this little one and know I'm in for the lomg-haul (he's 9) so I get it. Don't be embarrassed/ reticent you can get your point across politely but still show you're not going to be messed with.

@Wolfiefan

Dyslexia won’t make her swing on her chair. What does DD say about these comments? What is the school doing to improve matters?

Pupils who are not engaged, for whatever reason, may well start to get bored which then leads to things like chair swinging. Also as PP said, she may well have ADD or ADHD which is hugely undiagnosed, especially in girls.

For all those saying there's not much you can do but move school- yes there is! Go straight to your child's DHT and discuss this: you are perfectly correct to say that teachers should not be shouting and there's something very wrong if they are. They need retraining/ stress management if they teach by shouting.

@User135792468

It sounds like you’re making excuses and in denial about your child’s poor behaviour. Aside from dyslexia, she doesn’t have any other diagnosed SEN. Please don’t try and force another diagnosis if you don’t genuinely believe she has it. Try and work with the school but also your dd needs to improve her behaviour by the sounds of it. I do agree with you though that I wouldn’t like a teacher shouting at my dc all day. Are you sure though that your dd isn’t just getting told off and she is perceiving it as being shouted at when she isn’t?

I'm not quite sure where I have made excuses in any of my posts. Her getting distracted is a trait of Dyslexia - not an excuse. May I add that I have never been told my daughter misbehaves at all during her time at school. In Y2, she thrived and we had no issues. I arrange a meeting to discuss my frustration that my daughter is shouted at every day and doesn't want to go to school to then be told that the said teacher loses her patience BECAUSE of DD's apparent misbehavior which is the first I have heard and it does not reflect the child we have at home.

Would the school agree a series of observations? Looking at her behaviour and interactions with staff and students? She’s so young. And her behaviour is a communication that all isn’t well. They should be focused on how to help. Not criticising.

OP, if things don't change then I would seriously consider moving schools. I had a very similar situation with my ds ( he was diagnosed years later with dyslexia and Adhd) and the damage a teacher like this can do to the self esteem of a SEN child can last for the rest of their school life. I only wish I had taken my ds out of school as soon as it started.

As you are not in the classroom and are getting a second hand report from a child I would leave it to the teacher. Teach your child to how to behave in a classroom and definitely not to swing in her chair.
I have 2 dyslexic children and it really does not mean they cannot behave.

If this is the first time that the school have mentioned your dd behaviour then I think I would ask for a meeting with her teacher and maybe the school senco or family liaison officer if they have one. Make it clear you want to work with them to improve outcomes for your dd, you are disappointed she is disrupting the class and ask how you can all work together to improve her behaviour. Does the class have a TA? I am assuming that there have been no problems with her behaviour in school up until now? I volunteered in a school where there was one rather shouty teacher, I was glad my own dc never had said teacher, but be good to speak with her teacher and get to the bottom of it all.

I moved ds from a school with a teacher like that. I spoke to her, I spoke to the depute, nothing changed so we removed him from the school.

Good teachers don’t need to shout, we have enough training (and usually experience) in behaviour management to cope with children without bully tactics. But children exaggerate so you need to find out if they actually are shouting. Have an honest conversation with the teacher and look at how you can move forward. Is it a one form entry school or could you move class?

The "losing patience" comment is what makes it bad, especially coming from the head. They should know it's not ok or a behaviour strategy. It's also an admission that the teacher does indeed shout.

We have teachers that are naturally loud, some that are very firm and some that are a mix of both. They do not shout though and definitely not because they lost patience with a child.

I'd request a meeting with the SENCO. Go through your DD's needs/difficulties again, ask about her behaviour and why weren't you made aware before . Tell them how it's making DD feel and her reluctance to go to school. Then ask for solutions, what can be done to improve the relationship with the teacher and rebuild trust, what can be done for DD to manage the work/classroom environment etc. Do not accept "it's her fault". Even if it is, she is a child and the teacher is the trained professional .

Have you actually heard the teacher shout? Do the school acknowledge that she shouts? I ask because my nephew is constantly accusing me of shouting when all I'm actually doing is projecting my voice loudly to get dcs attention. However, if the teacher is genuinely shouting at the children then this is not acceptable and the headteacher needs to address it.

@Meadowblossom

As you are not in the classroom and are getting a second hand report from a child I would leave it to the teacher. Teach your child to how to behave in a classroom and definitely not to swing in her chair. I have 2 dyslexic children and it really does not mean they cannot behave.

People with this attitude really piss me off: 'It's not happened to me so it doesn't exist'. Not helpful, not realistic and incredibly patronising.

Like PP said, good teachers do not need to shout, it's bullying.

It sounds like you’re making excuses and in denial about your child’s poor behaviour

You have no idea how children with dyslexia present - they have a great deal of difficulty in classrooms.

Wow!!
What country did these teachers you know of do their training in? This is laughable.

OP-If your DC's dyslexia has gone misdiagnosed for a long time she may have developed distraction techniques to avoid too much attention. She may be a bit embarrassed and have become overly chatty. This can be annoying for a teacher but there is never an excuse to shout, unless it's life and limb. Self esteem is hugely impacted by the feeling of not knowing what it is that you're struggling with and she may be needing to learn some relaxation techniques to bring her stress levels down.
There is an helpful online resource for staff, parents and kids. Hope you can access something of benefit.
dyslexiascotland.com
Dyslexia is a complex issue that encompasses working memory issues and even sensory/motor issues. This can be mistaken for ADD however dyslexia is a wide and varied spectrum.
ICT support should be in place, eg her own laptop or iPad from the school with speech to text functions.

@Wolfiefan

Would the school agree a series of observations? Looking at her behaviour and interactions with staff and students? She’s so young. And her behaviour is a communication that all isn’t well. They should be focused on how to help. Not criticising.

@wolfiefan Possibly. It is certainly something I will put forward. Her dyslexia was picked up in y2 and whilst she's always been a little behind her peers, she did really well in that class. It baffles me how suddenly I have this 'disruptive' child. I'm thinking back to her last parents evening in November where they told me how well she got on with others and what a kind and helpful child she is. It feels like I have highlighted the issue of shouting and their defense is that her apparant disruptive behaviour is the reason for it.

@MamaBee23 I was told my son was disruptive because he would cry when she shouted at him which made her shout louder. The teacher told me he was annoying at parents night. That went down like a lead balloon.

The school told us she was firm but fair. She wasn't fair and was just a cunt. She knew my son had additional needs and was being assessed and said he was too distracting to the other children and that he needed to learn how to stop fighting, stop crying and stop irritating everyone.