Help! St Albans or Sutton- need to move by March!

[May83]

Hi all,

We need to move out of Greenwich, in London, by March. I’m looking for a safe, family friendly area with excellent state schools (my little one will start school Sept 2023).

I’m a full-time working mum, and 3 months pregnant with our next child. I want to continue working 3-4 days a week after my mat leave so the location needs to be well connected to London.

Also unfortunately I’m not physically/emotionally resilient with difficult/long commutes so that’s a big factor too. Equally, we want the best free education for our children…!

So far we’ve whittled down St Albans and Sutton as 2 potential areas to move to. I have some Qs I’d appreciate some inputs on please:

1. What’s it like living here?
2. How was your commute to London in terms of travel time and also the journey itself (changes/ seat/ temperature/ people)?
3. suggestions of other places with great connectivity to London, outstanding state schools, and family friendly safe areas are welcome too!!

Many thanks in advance…we need to move by March so am really hoping to make an informed decision with your input!

We had the same 2 options due to wanting the Thameslink for commuting options. We chose Sutton. One factor for us was location of family. Also looking in St Albans, we couldn't get what we wanted within walking distance of the station. From memory this was partly price and partly available housing stock. There seemed to be lots of terrace housing but less larger/semi detached properties. The properties we liked were a long walk from the station. (This was a few years ago so memory is vague!)

Where are you travelling to? Lots of the trains start at Sutton, so you get a seat. Pre-COVID they would get crowded later on but this is not an issue if you have a seat. The Thameslink trains are the new ones you can walk straight through all the carriages. The Southern trains are new and nice too. Having different lines is helpful for getting to different areas and if there are engineering works.

We are happy with the area and make use of Sutton High Street for shopping etc, local leisure centres, parks etc. The high street gets some criticism. It has been much improved in recent years and has a good range of shops and some nice restaurants. There are some nice pubs nearby and you can get out to countryside. One thing Sutton lacks a bit is the range of nice independent restaurants, but you can visit Wimbledon and other places for more selection.

St Albans is a popular place too, and we didn't fully explore it, so I'm sure it has lots to offer too.

Thanks so much for such a comprehensive response. Plenty to think about. I’ll need to commute to Stratford and was wondering if the travel from Sutton might kill me!!

Also Have you heard much about Orpington as a place to live and to commute from? When I looked at Crofton school (outstanding) I found it had a lot of council housing nearby…

I have live in Sutton for 10 years and know St Alban's quite well. Both have good and bad. Sutton is very family friendly and quite good on green space / access to countryside. I think the same could be said for St Albans. South of Sutton is very nice but slightly further from the stations (though some good local bus routes where you meet you neighbours and others doing the school runs). Most primaries seem to be doing ok. Sutton was more affordable (at least 10 years ago when we moved here) than many other areas - we have a lot of space which has been good during the lockdowns. You may or may not rate the grammar system at 11 plus (my oldest has just done this and did well but it can be stressful). The commute to London Bridge or Victoria is fine but it might be more of a pain to get to Stratford where you would have to get across on the Jubilee line or something like that. It is probably cheaper to commute from Sutton though. Our quality of life is overall very good and we work full time but neither of us commute every day. Do you have the option to work from home some days? I would personally value that for any of the locations you have mentioned.

I don't know Orpington at all. If you need to commute to Stratford, I'd probably start looking at the commute and work out from there. You will find good schools in lots of areas and you can identify the areas you like.

You do right to consider your commute, I knew I’d find it hard when we moved out of London and was right.

Also agree with the PP about distance between housing and the station: most people with two jobs where I live have two cars for this reason (housing being limited/costly within 15 mins walk of station) which is obviously expensive - plus parking.

Sutton trains can be SLOW! And you’d have long tube ride on top.

St Albans trains are expensive.

Sutton state selective schools are ‘super selective’, a merrygoround and challenging odds of entry.

@May83

Thanks so much for such a comprehensive response. Plenty to think about. I’ll need to commute to Stratford and was wondering if the travel from Sutton might kill me!!

Also Have you heard much about Orpington as a place to live and to commute from? When I looked at Crofton school (outstanding) I found it had a lot of council housing nearby…

When I looked at Crofton school (outstanding) I found it had a lot of council housing nearby…

And the problem with that is.....?

Speaking from experience I would chose at Albans.

Sutton ive found is ok. Just ok.
Orpington is okay and like everywhere, has some rough spots. Just didn’t find the area ‘nice’ enough.

I found Orpington similar in what you say when you mention a lot of council housing.

Nothing wrong with council homes, but as like you - I would prefer to live amongst other homeowners like myself.

@UrsulaBursula

I found Orpington similar in what you say when you mention a lot of council housing.

Nothing wrong with council homes, but as like you - I would prefer to live amongst other homeowners like myself.

Yes, totally agree. Nothing wrong with council homes - I too would like to live among like myself. Thanks for sharing your views on Sutton/ Orpington/ st albans

@Loopytiles

Sutton state selective schools are ‘super selective’, a merrygoround and challenging odds of entry.

It’s either that or private school… and I’d really rather not shell out for private school if we can help it…happy to do the tutoring to get them into grammar if possible though…!!

I think it’s boiling down to the below - we will have to pick one of the below:

1. Orpington - on the negatives, it’s a rubbish area. Positive points: fast and cheap commute to London, relatively cheaper housing, access to grammar schools
2. St Albans - positives: lovely area, fast commute to London. negatives: expensive housing and commute, only some grammar schools (not as many as Sutton)
3. Sutton - positive points: has the most no of grammar schools compared to St Albans and Orpington; cheap commute to London. Negatives: mixed reviews about the area being okayish only, slow commute to London, still relatively expensive housing for a 4 bedroom detached

@Loopytiles

You do right to consider your commute, I knew I’d find it hard when we moved out of London and was right.

Also agree with the PP about distance between housing and the station: most people with two jobs where I live have two cars for this reason (housing being limited/costly within 15 mins walk of station) which is obviously expensive - plus parking.

Sutton trains can be SLOW! And you’d have long tube ride on top.

St Albans trains are expensive.

I think I’m having to recognise that I’ll soon be a mum of 2…and I’ll need to go part time for a few years while kids are little… so DH suggested on that basis that commute shouldn’t be a big deal (he’ll need to go in twice a week max).

However I want to be able to choose whether I work full or part time in the medium/long term… and don’t want to be ‘beaten down’ into submission to giving up work due to a ridiculously long commute…

Also don’t know whether this this working from home trend will last beyond pandemic…! Or whether employers will expect us back in and politicians calling us back to city centres for the economy…

Would you say Sutton is still a trek if I was working more centrally (rather than Stratford East London)?

Looks like I’ll have to pick the most expensive option of the 3, if I want to keep all my options open for working full time in the longer run with the huge choice of jobs central London has to offer

Why will you ‘need’ to go PT with small DC: DH earns more? Working PT will probably compound that.

Where I live is a tricky commute and the men are usually unwilling to work PT or work from home more than one day a week. It remains to be seen how many employers will continue with ‘hybrid’ working post pandemic. IME a lot of mums with higher earning DHs go PT, get stuck pay/progression wise, take a much lower paid local role, or quit work entirely. Because it’s hard with two people commuting.

Even with tutoring you can’t bank on ‘superselective’ school entry: there being more state selective schools in Sutton doesn’t mean odds of entry are higher. Odds are likely much lower.

So I think your concerns are well founded.

If you’re commuting to Stratford, those don’t sound like brilliant options - is there a reason you’ve narrowed it down to those areas? Do you have family whose locations need to be taken into consideration?

For somewhere with good schools which is family-friendly and well-connected to London, you could look at Bishops Stortford (East Herts) - there are direct trains to Stratford and Liverpool Street via Tottenham Hale. Or other places further up and down that train line depending on budget, eg Sawbridgeworth, Newport, Broxbourne area.

Either way, I would definitely look at National Rail connections into Stratford (and perhaps the end of the Central Line - areas like Epping and so on, though I don’t know those areas and can’t comment on schools) and start to narrow down locations from there, unless you have a particular reason for avoiding being to the east/north-east/south-east of London.

My personal experience is that a longer commute is ok if it’s just one mode of transport with a short-ish walk at either end (especially if train as you have the internet connection to get stuff done, eg work or life admin) but as soon as you throw tube and train into the equation, it’s more wearing.

Thanks guys. My SIL lives near Wimbledon hence why we’ve been considering the south. DH is not OK with living in East London. We’ve explored Beckenham (it’s gorgeous) however getting into an outstanding school there is going to be unlikely due to few outstanding schools and extremely small catchment areas. Bromley is nice too - but similar problem there. And neither caters that well for grammar schools - we’d have to move again I think in 5-7 yrs for secondaries!

Forgot about looking for outstanding schools- unless the judgement is 2019 or later then they probably won't be outstanding when next inspected.

Not all the Sutton trains are slow. You can be at Victoria in 30 mins and Blackfriars in about 35 mins. However the London Bridge trains are slow, which might be an issue for Stratford, if you pick up the Jubilee line at London Bridge.

I think that the deal breaker is your SIL then - if you want to be near Wimbledon then you should start looking around Cheam Village and Carshalton - good schools, ok commutes, nice areas and very easy to get to Wimbledon.

4 bed detached a bit thin on the ground within walking distance to stations though, it will probably be 4 bed semi detached IMO.

people tutor for years and still don't get into the Sutton grammars. They get 1000s of applicants for 150 odd places so they really are creaming the naturally extremely bright children. the schools have a particular atmosphere as a result. I don't think you can bank on that.

True @Sonex but if you live in the borough then you have a much better chance and I would say that if you have an average child you can tutor them to get there if that's what you really want - I would say that that isn't time well spent but other peoples opinions differ.

I wouldn't describe my DC as 'naturally extremely bright' but they both got in with a years worth of (intense) tutoring and are doing ok.

how recent was that though? The number of applicants has gone up year on year.

I also agree it's not time well spent, once you have teenagers/secondary aged kids you realise that they have to be self-motivated and able to do it themselves and don't want adults gaming the system for them (and I say that as someone who did tutor, but not for grammars).