Help! St Albans or Sutton- need to move by March!

[May83]

Hi all,

We need to move out of Greenwich, in London, by March. I’m looking for a safe, family friendly area with excellent state schools (my little one will start school Sept 2023).

I’m a full-time working mum, and 3 months pregnant with our next child. I want to continue working 3-4 days a week after my mat leave so the location needs to be well connected to London.

Also unfortunately I’m not physically/emotionally resilient with difficult/long commutes so that’s a big factor too. Equally, we want the best free education for our children…!

So far we’ve whittled down St Albans and Sutton as 2 potential areas to move to. I have some Qs I’d appreciate some inputs on please:

1. What’s it like living here?
2. How was your commute to London in terms of travel time and also the journey itself (changes/ seat/ temperature/ people)?
3. suggestions of other places with great connectivity to London, outstanding state schools, and family friendly safe areas are welcome too!!

Many thanks in advance…we need to move by March so am really hoping to make an informed decision with your input!

Yes, within the last couple of years

@ChristopherTracy

I think that the deal breaker is your SIL then - if you want to be near Wimbledon then you should start looking around Cheam Village and Carshalton - good schools, ok commutes, nice areas and very easy to get to Wimbledon.

4 bed detached a bit thin on the ground within walking distance to stations though, it will probably be 4 bed semi detached IMO.

That’s excellent advice! Thank you! Or could also look at Morden I guess or Raynes Park. Please share if you know much about these areas? And thanks also for balancing opinions on Grammar Schools (congrats on yours getting in!)

Morden and Raynes Park are seen locally as having some pretty dodgy comprehensive choices depending on where you are. Cheam much safer in that respect. But of course much less further in so longer commute.

I dont think they would be in catchment for some of the grammars as well but the boys and girls grammars have different criteria - you have to check very carefully.

What about Epsom? Still have the grammar options available but also very good state options - Glyn (boys) Rosebery (girls) or Blenheim (mixed). Primary schools almost all good or outstanding. Commute is about 35 mins to London Waterloo or Victoria and a little longer and less frequent to London Bridge. Stratford is a tricky commute from most places it isn’t on a direct line to, West End and City office locations much easier if you have any options/choice.

@DoThePropeller

What about Epsom? Still have the grammar options available but also very good state options - Glyn (boys) Rosebery (girls) or Blenheim (mixed). Primary schools almost all good or outstanding. Commute is about 35 mins to London Waterloo or Victoria and a little longer and less frequent to London Bridge. Stratford is a tricky commute from most places it isn’t on a direct line to, West End and City office locations much easier if you have any options/choice.

Thanks very much - yes we’re finding Stratford is the tricky location…

I’ll take a look at Epsom too.

Cheam, Epsom and Ewell are all very nice and I would consider any of them. I would not want to commute regularly to Stratford from where I am (sutton / cheam borders) but central London (esp if near Victoria) is fine from here. I don't think the London Bridge trains are too bad either. The benefit of Sutton (compared with Cheam, Ewell) might be a slightly easier commute. My daughter (now 11) is able but not gifted and did very well in 11 plus with a bit of tutoring in year 5. We were living in Wimbledon but after 2nd kid realised this would be a stretch financially - we have a big house and plenty of space here, which we also value.

@allthatIcando

Cheam, Epsom and Ewell are all very nice and I would consider any of them. I would not want to commute regularly to Stratford from where I am (sutton / cheam borders) but central London (esp if near Victoria) is fine from here. I don't think the London Bridge trains are too bad either. The benefit of Sutton (compared with Cheam, Ewell) might be a slightly easier commute. My daughter (now 11) is able but not gifted and did very well in 11 plus with a bit of tutoring in year 5. We were living in Wimbledon but after 2nd kid realised this would be a stretch financially - we have a big house and plenty of space here, which we also value.

Thanks so much for sharing. Yes, I’ve noticed the houses you get for your money are really very nice and big in Sutton area.

If we move to Sutton we’d have my SIL near us. She’s the only family we have in London - (the rest of our family are living at least 4 hrs away from us). How essential/ beneficial have you found having family nearby when raising two little ones?

It’s a toss up between picking St Albans (the better commute but SIL being an hour away)

…versus being in Sutton (being 15min drive from SIL but having to deal with a longer/ difficult commute to Stratford).

SIL isn’t likely do any regular/ formal childcare for us but is there in case we want an evening out or a weekend away …or is there in case we need her to cover for us at a moments notice if we’re stuck in travel…

Also do you get a seat at Sutton when on the train to London Bridge? How busy is the train at peak times…?

I've lived in St Albans for 20 years and love it. It's only 20 minutes to St Pancras and there are trains every 10 minutes.

The state schools are excellent although my dc go to private school. Our decision to send them to independent schools is not a slight against the local schools just our personal preference.

House prices are very high though so I would assume you need to work out your budget and then see what and where it gets you.

The city itself is fantastic with its architecture and diversity. It only takes me 5 minutes to be in the countryside and Luton airport is only 20 minutes away while Heathrow is 35 minutes.

In my opinion it's got everything.

@May83

Thanks guys. My SIL lives near Wimbledon hence why we’ve been considering the south. DH is not OK with living in East London. We’ve explored Beckenham (it’s gorgeous) however getting into an outstanding school there is going to be unlikely due to few outstanding schools and extremely small catchment areas. Bromley is nice too - but similar problem there. And neither caters that well for grammar schools - we’d have to move again I think in 5-7 yrs for secondaries!

St Olaves and Newstead grammars are in Orpington, which is train-able from Bromley.

@follygirl

I've lived in St Albans for 20 years and love it. It's only 20 minutes to St Pancras and there are trains every 10 minutes.

The state schools are excellent although my dc go to private school. Our decision to send them to independent schools is not a slight against the local schools just our personal preference.

House prices are very high though so I would assume you need to work out your budget and then see what and where it gets you.

The city itself is fantastic with its architecture and diversity. It only takes me 5 minutes to be in the countryside and Luton airport is only 20 minutes away while Heathrow is 35 minutes.

In my opinion it's got everything.

Thanks - do you have family nearby that can help out with the kids?

Personally I’d take local family member in a heartbeat, not just for the babysitting for a night out but for the hopefully less frequent someone is sick, broken a bone, someone stuck on a train etc emergency situations. It’s very hard to replicate that familial bond with friends.

@May83

I think it’s boiling down to the below - we will have to pick one of the below: 1) Orpington - on the negatives, it’s a rubbish area. Positive points: fast and cheap commute to London, relatively cheaper housing, access to grammar schools 2) St Albans - positives: lovely area, fast commute to London. negatives: expensive housing and commute, only some grammar schools (not as many as Sutton) 3) Sutton - positive points: has the most no of grammar schools compared to St Albans and Orpington; cheap commute to London. Negatives: mixed reviews about the area being okayish only, slow commute to London, still relatively expensive housing for a 4 bedroom detached

What grammar schools in St Albans are you thinking of? Are you thinking of the South West Herts Consortium schools, none of which are in St Albans, and none of which are true grammars (even the two ones with “grammar school” in their names) - they’re all semi selective on an academic test/music test/sports test for some of them. Happy to give more info on all that if you’re interested!

St Albans does have some outstanding state secondaries, but I don’t think any are selective on an 11+, and my understanding is you have to live v close (eg Sandringham, Beaumont), or get in on a lottery system (St Albans Girls School).

Heaven forbid you lived near council housing.

Is your SIL older or younger? Will your SIL never move? Does she have responsibilities of her own?

I'm not sure I'd base a house purchase entirely around a family member unless I was certain they wouldn't move themselves.

I wouldn’t prioritise living nearer a sibling over schools / housing / commute to work.

Thanks Loopytiles and Notinthestairs. I agree, one can make their own village of friends wherever they live. And I guess plenty of people will be on our shoes with no nearby family support as St Albans is after all a London commuter town…!

As a previous poster said we don't have any grammar schools in St Albans. There is Parmiters but that's in Watford. The local state schools have an excellent reputation and they get excellent exam results so I personally wouldn't dismiss it. The catchment areas are small however and house prices are high in those areas as a result.
I think you need to have a serious think about budget for houses if you want to live here though.

@follygirl

As a previous poster said we don't have any grammar schools in St Albans. There is Parmiters but that's in Watford. The local state schools have an excellent reputation and they get excellent exam results so I personally wouldn't dismiss it. The catchment areas are small however and house prices are high in those areas as a result. I think you need to have a serious think about budget for houses if you want to live here though.

Thanks so much. Clearly the info I’ve gotten here has been eye opening. - I’d previously had no idea that St Albans had no grammars…only partially selective ones. And yes, house prices near excellent comprehensives are high as a result…

What do you guys think of Bexleyheath? It presents a decent commute to Stratford, huge houses and has 4 grammars i think…

I think I’m realising that St Albans is not the best value for money (commute and cost per sq foot of house)….and Sutton/ SW London is a total trek to Stratford…we’ve found Orpington is a bit run down…

I’m now expanding my search into other areas in Kent (bexleyheath, Sidcup, Welling, Edith etc)…some of these areas offer a good commute to Stratford (under 1 hour/ can also drive there!) and great value for money in terms of housing/ commute…

Any recommendations on which places to look at would be great…

I just want to really really thank you all - every one of you! - for helping me… this process of getting your thoughts has helped me to focus my attention more on where the grammar schools actually are!! And to focus on commute time/ journey convenience (rather than just go for the obvious areas/ next to SIL).

Hi @May83. Input on your question #3: Have you considered the Ham, Petersham, North Kingston area? There's an interesting MN thread about secondary schools in Richmond borough: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/4452399-Richmond-State-Secondary-Schools
According to a poster there, all secondary schools in Richmond borough are now Ofsted rated either 'good' or 'outstanding'. And perhaps it would be an easier commute than the other outer London area you're considering? Houses are pricey in Richmond borough obvs, but there are pockets in Ham which are cheaper.

I see this thread has moved on! But yes the commute in the morning to London Bridge takes around half an hour and you get a seat at Sutton. It is a struggle at the next stop though (Carshalton Beeches).

@ChristopherTracy

I see this thread has moved on! But yes the commute in the morning to London Bridge takes around half an hour and you get a seat at Sutton. It is a struggle at the next stop though (Carshalton Beeches).

Ooooh I’m swinging like a pendulum at the moment - Sutton keeps coming back on the cards… my DH has literally just this moment asked me ‘where are you thinking of now?…’ and I burst out laughing 😂