How do I help my five year old with jealousy

[lookingforadvice21]

Hello,

Looking for advice, my DD is 5 and has recently started primary school. She has been low key bullying another girl in her class since school began, I have been doing all that I can to combat this. Consequences, apologies in person at the door for each incident, apology cards.

I'm considering taking my daughter to see a child psychologist to get the route cause of the bullying as I am desperate to nip it in the bud.

Have spoke at lengths with my daughter about why she is behaving this way and tonight she said that the reason she feels bad inside- so behaves badly towards this other child Is because she is jealous. I have explained that we can talk about the reasons she feels jealous and try and stop her feeling bad but it doesn't allow or excuse her behaving in this way towards the other child. It needs to stop. There will be severe consequences if it continues (consequences spelled out to her)

How can I help her with these feeling of jealousy though?

To be completely fair the other little girl Is extremely lavished, LOVELY parents, Do tonnes of adventures and amazing family days out every single weekend. More than any other family I have ever come across in my entire life. This child is absolutely lovely and well liked in the school because of how lovely she is. In comparison my child is having a difficult time at school because she is being unkind and a bully.

Our situation in comparison is that my DD is also EXTREMELY lucky... we live in a super privileged area, she has lots of lovely things, we go on holiday abroad a few times a year, family days out every/every other weekend, me and her dad are happily together.

The other child does have and get more than my daughter (5 holidays a year, Disneyland twice, new toys every weekend, very indulged but a lovely lovely kid and family)

How do I help her with her feelings? Any advice on what more I can do to help here?

I have tried explaining that she's very lucky, some children have nothing, the material things don't really matter and the most important thing is she has a family that adore her and that's all that really matters. She doesn't seem to get it.

As previous post mentions children age 5 are not bullies. She is communicating how she is feeling through her behaviour. This is not really about material things. She is finding managing relationships at school a challenge and needs help to find strategies to choose to act differently. Try and ask the school again if you can work together to help your daughter, if the other parent raises an issue with you, explain as this is behaviour happening in school, could they speak with the teacher as you are trying all you can to help and it is best dealt with in school. This other child may not be as perfect as others think and may know how to wind your daughter up

Yes, I would ask the other parent to stop contacting you and put the onus on school to sort things out. In a class of 5 year olds they really should be on top of this.

Playground politics can turn around very quickly - my DD had a nemesis in p1, both disliked each other,mean to each other. They did a week of summer school and are absolutely fine this year. Having said this, if you are unhappy with the school this early (behaviour policy etc) then I would seriously suggest moving her for a fresh start, she's young enough to settle right in somewhere else.

I agree with previous posters, try and push this back on the school to manage. They don't seem very effective at the moment. How and why is your daughter given daily opportunity to be unkind to the other girl?

I'd also question if there is any halo effect (and it's opposite) at play here. So the other girl has the halo effect and her actions are viewed positively. Talking about new toys or outings is a neutral or nice behaviour (not boasting or showing off). But your daughter doesn't have a halo effect so anytime she isn't actively kind is viewed as being unkind. For example not sharing the treat in her school lunch box would be viewed as unkind.

I think I would be trying to find out a bit more about why your DD is jealous of this girl. As a PP said it’s unlikely to be about the holidays.

You’ve said this girl is well liked. Is your DD jealous of that? Does she feel she doesn’t have friends? Or at least, not friends she feels secure of?

My DD is 6 and is very aware of who is “popular” and feels she is less popular. Like your DD however, she is always comparing herself to the one or two girls who are top of the tree. I try to encourage her to look away from the popular girls and look around at the other kids, the ones who aren’t in the centre of it all. Maybe those others feel just like my DD does? Maybe they are also feeling a bit insecure and looking for a good friend? Is there anyone who looks lonely, maybe go play with them? Perhaps this approach might work for your DD too.

Sorry your daughter is having a hard time OP. Must be very upsetting for her and for you.

As previous posters said, I’d move away from thinking it’s about the actual toys and holidays and focus on the feelings at play.
Sounds like your daughter is struggling with feeling inferior and ‘bad’, while she sees this other girl being perceived as ‘lovely’.
I’d focus on helping her accept that we all have lovely, kind parts of ourselves as well as the jealous, angry, upset parts. We all get things right sometimes and at other times we get things wrong, and that’s ok, she’s allowed to feel all these things and is loved the same no matter what she’s feeling. (Obviously, I’m not implying that you ever suggested anything else, just saying that it might be a relief for her to have that reinforced). I’d not make it an ‘intervention’ but rather weave it through everyday conversations. I’d also not focus too much on the other girl and try to do lots of things with her where you observe and comment on what she’s doing - not praise, just give undivided attention with no agenda (‘you are drawing red flowers. How did you think to use red?’ Etc).

There something a bit odd that people outside of the family would know about other family’s holiday arrangements and trips or presents. I have no idea how many holidays other people take - is the other child rubbing it in?

Is there a teacher you have a good rapport with? Might be worth having a meeting to think together what is going on for your daughter, not just what consequences they will use.

I’m horrified at the schools rewards for little ones! You need to send a sharp letter about your concerns and negative effect this is having in your daughter and ask for an immediate review!

It’s totally wrong.

Is she receiving immediate consequences?

@BluebellsGreenbells

I’m horrified at the schools rewards for little ones! You need to send a sharp letter about your concerns and negative effect this is having in your daughter and ask for an immediate review!

It’s totally wrong.

I have... I went to the class teacher initially, then I went to the head teacher and then I went to the local council. All of them have said that this system that's excluding my child is ok because they have other forms of positive behaviour recognition that is inclusive of all children (a class star jar where pupils can get a star for the jar and when the jar is filled they get an award as a class) and I'm the only parent who has voiced an issue with the hot chocolate award. Of course I'm the only one to voice an issue because it's only my child being left out and I don't care how inclusive the other recognition system is, the system I have an issue with isn't inclusive and that's the one I have a problem with...

It's exhausting. I don't have any other choice but to leave her at the school and accept this reward system will pick apart her self esteem or totally disrupt her little world and move her schools.

The class teacher, head teacher and the local council have all said they won't discuss the system with me further and it won't be changed.

@Usernameoflotsofnumbers

Sorry your daughter is having a hard time OP. Must be very upsetting for her and for you.

As previous posters said, I’d move away from thinking it’s about the actual toys and holidays and focus on the feelings at play.
Sounds like your daughter is struggling with feeling inferior and ‘bad’, while she sees this other girl being perceived as ‘lovely’.
I’d focus on helping her accept that we all have lovely, kind parts of ourselves as well as the jealous, angry, upset parts. We all get things right sometimes and at other times we get things wrong, and that’s ok, she’s allowed to feel all these things and is loved the same no matter what she’s feeling. (Obviously, I’m not implying that you ever suggested anything else, just saying that it might be a relief for her to have that reinforced). I’d not make it an ‘intervention’ but rather weave it through everyday conversations. I’d also not focus too much on the other girl and try to do lots of things with her where you observe and comment on what she’s doing - not praise, just give undivided attention with no agenda (‘you are drawing red flowers. How did you think to use red?’ Etc).

There something a bit odd that people outside of the family would know about other family’s holiday arrangements and trips or presents. I have no idea how many holidays other people take - is the other child rubbing it in?

Is there a teacher you have a good rapport with? Might be worth having a meeting to think together what is going on for your daughter, not just what consequences they will use.

Thank you that's all really helpful. We spent some extra time playing a board game before bed tonight and I made sure that we had the time for a proper bedtime story, she had my undivided attention.

I am friends with the other child's mum hence why I know so much info re the holidays ect but my daughter wouldn't know the exact amount she just keeps saying 'other child is so much luckier than me!! She gets everything, she has everything, she got to go to x place, she's going on holiday, she got x toy' ect

@Senmumm2021

Is she receiving immediate consequences?

I have never witnessed any of the behaviour First hand it's fed back from the school or from the parent of the child to me, as soon as I'm aware the consequence is instant.

I suppose it’s not the reward system that’s the biggest problem, but rather the way it’s used.
Surely, if a child is struggling it only makes sense to recognise and encourage when they do something kind.
Is the teacher willing to see her as a girl who’s having a hard time (with empathy)?
I know it’s hard to turn these things around once there’s already a conflict, but is there any way to co-operate with the school to support your DD?

Since you already contacted a child psychologist- hopefully it will provide a good space to think about your DD and what’s going on for her. Jealousy is seen as this ‘bad’ thing but really, it’s a very painful experience and your DD is lucky to have a mum who wants to know about it and support her.

She’s still very little and I don’t think it’s easy to work these things out even for an adult. She’s lucky to have company in her difficult experience.

To be honest, I think I would look round at other schools. She's still little and can have a fresh start somewhere else. I expect she will find it easier to be kinder when she is treated with more kindness by her teacher. It could be a wonderful change for her.

If you liked you could maybe give it a bit longer to see if you can unpick what is happening here. How much is your daughter needing to work on kindness in certain situations and how much her living up to the expectations of the teacher. It doesn't sound a nice environment to go to everyday. I changed jobs when I was in a similar situation as an adult.

Suggest to the school they start a reward chart for her for smaller periods of time, like morning or afternoon, of for every lessons. Once she gets a set amount she gets a small reward . Make the goal achievable to begin with. A whole week is pointless when she's really struggling with her behaviour and feelings.

Other than that is there a behaviour log? When do these incidents happen? Is there a pattern? Are they sat next to each other? Can she move tables and encouraged to hang out with other children so she has as little time as possible near this other girl? Not only will that give her less opportunities to hurt her, but she'll hear less about this toy and that trip.

"have never witnessed any of the behaviour First hand it's fed back from the school or from the parent of the child to me, as soon as I'm aware the consequence is instant."

That is not instant to the behaviour
It s When you find out
So is meaningless
It s way after the incident

What do school do when they witness scratching or other behaviour?
She s young
Get the psychologist to use play therapy etc to find what is really going on

I’m having the exact opposite issue to you OP- one boy being consistently awful to DS since day 1. Now escalating to hitting and punching him.

The school say that DS needs to learn a bit of resilience and the behaviour of the other child is ‘normal’ for this age when they’re working out a social pecking order. The other child was absolutely vile to him last Friday and got their sodding class cuddly toy as a reward for good behaviour- I’d imagine as positive reinforcement of a moment of niceness.

It’s very interesting how 2 schools have such a different approach! I’d say you certainly don’t need to know about every little incident, and the other parent should be directing their concerns to the school- not you.

@PatchworkElmer

I’m having the exact opposite issue to you OP- one boy being consistently awful to DS since day 1. Now escalating to hitting and punching him.

The school say that DS needs to learn a bit of resilience and the behaviour of the other child is ‘normal’ for this age when they’re working out a social pecking order. The other child was absolutely vile to him last Friday and got their sodding class cuddly toy as a reward for good behaviour- I’d imagine as positive reinforcement of a moment of niceness.

It’s very interesting how 2 schools have such a different approach! I’d say you certainly don’t need to know about every little incident, and the other parent should be directing their concerns to the school- not you.

I'm sorry you are going through this it's really difficult for parents on both sides of children bullying.

My asd child is like this, fixates on one particular child and struggles to deal with jealousy ( as due to autism doesn’t understand jealousy, being kind and privileged etc)
Asd in girls is sometimes very tricky to spot at first. Not saying your daughter is on spectrum just what my experience Is

I couldn't recommend this resource highly enough!

www.teacherspayteachers.com/Product/Developing-a-Positive-Attitude-BUNDLE-3-Amazing-Interactive-Lessons-7130791

The therapist is based in the UK and offers remote therapy to those not living nearby.

www.amazon.co.uk/How-are-you-feeling-today/dp/1472906098/ref=mp_s_a_1_13?crid=3Q11MNMK7H054&keywords=how+do+you+feel&sprefix=how+do+you+f%2Caps%2C80&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1639611679&sr=8-13

Here’s another book recommendation op, a page on each emotion and ideas for kids on what they can do when they feel it. I tend to pull it out if there’s something going down! The same author has books called ‘will you be my friend’ which is basically a manual for kids that age on behaviours that help friendship, ie smile, make eye contact, ask questions about them.

On the bright side OP your child sounds articulate and bright! There’s no way that my 5 year old could identify that she was feeling jealous. And she thinks that the French child in her class goes home to France every night, and has no sense of who goes on
more holidays than she does. Still, despite her eloquence, your child is still just a littlun like mine, and needs help in dealing with her big emotions. Generally I find that most things are solved by a bit of
Focused one on one time.

Is a child that age really that aware of the wealth of another? I doubt it.
I suspect the other child just has better social skills and is more popular in class and playground. Maybe your DD feels left out.
Pandemic has messed up a lot of children socially.

@BaileysBaileys

My asd child is like this, fixates on one particular child and struggles to deal with jealousy ( as due to autism doesn’t understand jealousy, being kind and privileged etc) Asd in girls is sometimes very tricky to spot at first. Not saying your daughter is on spectrum just what my experience Is

I have had asd concerns before but her teacher says she can't see it. She's very noise sensitive, struggles socially with compromise in friendships. Would absolutely prefer to never see another person again and just stay with me forever. Maybe worth paying for a private assessment

@taylorwilde

I couldn't recommend this resource highly enough!

www.teacherspayteachers.com/Product/Developing-a-Positive-Attitude-BUNDLE-3-Amazing-Interactive-Lessons-7130791

The therapist is based in the UK and offers remote therapy to those not living nearby.

Wow this looks amazing and just the sort of thing I was after. Thank you so much!

@Heruka

www.amazon.co.uk/How-are-you-feeling-today/dp/1472906098/ref=mp_s_a_1_13?crid=3Q11MNMK7H054&keywords=how+do+you+feel&sprefix=how+do+you+f%2Caps%2C80&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1639611679&sr=8-13

Here’s another book recommendation op, a page on each emotion and ideas for kids on what they can do when they feel it. I tend to pull it out if there’s something going down! The same author has books called ‘will you be my friend’ which is basically a manual for kids that age on behaviours that help friendship, ie smile, make eye contact, ask questions about them.

This also sounds fab!!

@Bimblybomeyelash

On the bright side OP your child sounds articulate and bright! There’s no way that my 5 year old could identify that she was feeling jealous. And she thinks that the French child in her class goes home to France every night, and has no sense of who goes on more holidays than she does. Still, despite her eloquence, your child is still just a littlun like mine, and needs help in dealing with her big emotions. Generally I find that most things are solved by a bit of Focused one on one time.

Bright but a bit of a little sh**te... just kidding. Goes home to France every night 🙈😂 My DD is away to turn 6 in a few weeks so maybe an age difference also.