Time off school in Reception year for holiday - ok or not?

[madamy]

DD1 starts reception in January and after looking at the price of going away in the school holidays, we are considering taking her out of school for 2 weeks in June. She will be 5 in May.

This will be the only time we do it, I wouldn't consider taking her out once she is in Year 1+.

Is this a bad thing (school 'allows' 10 days absence) or not? I assume she's not going to miss anything vital as it's only reception.

Just interested to hear views!

Munker - I have no quarms about taking them out of school - so to me nursery is a no brainer.

As my SIL says " All they do is color!!! She'll catch up!!"

Still makes me giggle

lljkk don't you find it a little irritating that schools can waste years of a child's life with no comeback whatsoever? I agree that deciding who to hold responsible might be a problem, but I think it would be fair to start with the head teacher.

If you sent your child(ren) to a private school - perhaps you do already - how would you react if your child failed to learn one of the most important skills over six years? Would you just say "Oh well, I expect the teachers know what they're doing, and anyway, 80% of the other children are learning how to read" or would you ask some pretty pointed questions about what you were getting for all those thousands of pounds?

Why should state schools get off any more lightly? Incidentally, did you know that parents can be punished if their child does not undertake apporpriate education, but that there is no similar sanction for those looking after children in care?

Sorry, away from home, so don't have details of the research on the effect of summer breaks to hand. From memory, almost all children take at least a month to get back up to speed and the last 10 - 20% of them aren't there until Easter. There is absolutely no doubt that speading the summer holiday out a bit would benefit children educationally - and families too, since dates could be staggered between LEAs, reducing the peak holiday pricing effect.

"with going abroad you have no cheap option apart from out of term time because flights just go sky high."

There are other ways to get abroad than flying. IME you need to be a little more imaginative with your choice of travel and destination when going on holiday during school holidays but it IS possible to go abroad during school holidays if you put together your own package and you normally have the finances to afford a package holiday in term time.

I know a family who went to Greece in October half term. I have been to Italy during a late Easter one year. Families go camping. You can use the train to get to Italy or Southern France and book cheap accommodation yourself. Get the ferry and stay in Belgium Centre Parcs equivalent. Go to Sweden. Take your car on a ferry and go anywhere you like. Book two weeks off work during the summer holidays and book a one week last minute holiday through teletext. Go on holiday every other year.

There are many options and it is simply not the case that people have to choose between an expensive package holiday during school holidays or a cheaper package holiday during term time. I appreciate that many families cannot afford any form of holiday at anytime during the year, but I'm bothered by this attitude that one is entitled to continue having cheap package holidays during term time once they have children because that is what they have always done.

Definately do it. Every year we spend summer in spain with parents, but always leave a week before break up in July, just because we save about £100 each on flights. This year doing it a bit more extreme. Am taking 2 DDs (7&2) to spain for 6 months in april. Head master is completely backing us although it will mean I will have to home educate DD1 for few months. It really irked me though that I had to seek approval over what I wanted to do with my child. I think young kids often learn more valuable lessons outside school than in.

can't see any problem with it, go ahead

Ubergeekian

What is your point? Because some children leave school functionally illiterate parents should be entitled to take their children out of school during term time for holidays

The two issues are separate, surely.

I would be supportive of LEAs amending the set-up of school holidays if it were proven to be beneficial to the majority of the children. I wouldn't support such a change just for the reason of making school holidays cheaper. I don't think it would have that effect long term,. Demand is probably high enough for holidays throughout the whole of May through to August that the holiday companies would not have to reduce their prices during any of those months. Additionally, staggered school holidays may pose problems for parents who work in a different school to the one their children attend or for parents who have children in different schools.

Ubergeekian I think you need to point the finger of blame at the government and not individual teachers or Head teachers if children leave school at 11 functionally illiterate. Teachers are tied by the constraints of the curriculum.

My mother works in a school in a semi-deprived area where most of the children at age 4 could not identify a cow when she held up a plastic one. They could not label a cow! What does that say about the child's homelife and lack of exposure to books and nursery rhymes for the beginning 4/5 years of their life? Teachers can only do so much when the children are starting at such a low point and they also have to fit in other subjects deemed essential by the government.

I've a bee in my bonnet now.

"I think young kids often learn more valuable lessons outside school than in."

Well you might want to learn how to spell definitely before you home-ed your children for 6 months in Spain else it may be the case they would have learnt more in school.

I actually don't have a problem particularly with children missing a little bit of time in primary school (well, up to non exam/GCSE years actually). School is only one form of education. There is a lot to be said to having a family holiday togteher too.

When I grew up my dad had factory shut down weeks - a fortnight in June. That was the only time we had to go on holiday - he had no shut down in school holidays back then. So we missed 1-2 weeks of school each year. And we (my brother, sister and I) are all fine educationlly wise - all have good exam results, degrees, etc and all pretty fine re social side of stuff too. We always caught up with work and were in no way disadvantaged.

Oh and I am coming from this as an ex teacher and with a child who is not actually allowed to take time out of school for holidays (no 10 day allowance in DD's prep school for example).

But realistically I don't think 10 days a year makes any difference to the vast majority of children's education - not academically or socially.

Do it

We have

Twice

Loads of the parents do at my children's primary school

legally she doesn't have to attend school until the term after she is 5. Which would be september. So the school can't stop you anyhow.
She certainly isn't going to fail A levels cos you took 2 weeks holiday when she was 5.

Thanks for the spelling correction, today. lukiley my daughter spels beter than me. Also she will only be missing 3 months of term time, has already reached all her year 2 targets, speaks spanish fluently, so maybe she will be home-educating me

no. What message does it send to the children? I am taking my ds out of school at lunchtime on friday so I can take him up to london for dh's office christmas party for the kids - he will miss an hour of school and even then I feel guilty about that.

As for children leaving primary unable to read and write, of course one should question how that has happened, but similarly I question how children go through school unable to read and write and their parents seem to be unaware of this fact. Surely the parents have some responsibility here too?

Wouldn't do it myself.
I think it sends a very bad message to the school about your side of the parent-school partnership in a year which is about getting the children used to life in school, and preparing the ground for learning to read and write.
It also disrupts life for the rest of the class and the teachers too. Maybe so many people thinking its OK to take time off school is a contributory factor for our poor literacy and numeracy levels at 11 plus.
Personally I think we as parents get as much out of our children's education as we are prepared to put in, ourselves, from birth onwards. To be perfectly honest I think you forfeit the moral right to complain about your child's lack of progress over the year if you think taking them out for a fortnight will have no impact on their learning.
As others have said, teachers can only work with what they are given at age four plus. But I do think the current National Curriculum has a lot of scope for being rendered boring in the wrong hands, especially when league table places are at stake
Madamy, I agree peak-time holidays in the UK and those offered overseas by British companies are disgustingly overpriced. If you live in SE England and book early you can get a gite in France and a budget ferry crossing for a fortnight in high season for about the same price as a week anywhere in England. We cannot afford to holiday in places like Devon or Suffolk nowadays.
Blu hopefully the school will try and help ds feel included socially etc while he is recovering from his surgery, I know they are very good there in so many ways

"But realistically I don't think 10 days a year makes any difference to the vast majority of children's education - not academically or socially."

But that is probably because only a few do it. If a class of 30 all took 10 days off during school term-time over the course of the year, there would more likely be a detrimental effect on all the children.

I am not totally against one-off holidays or the odd day due to extenuating circumstances, I'm more irritated by the attitude that one has a right to a fancy holiday every year, or that for those two weeks of the year the parents know best but the rest of the year they're happy to use the school as a babysitting service and have only high expectations of what the school can do for them.

Good posts, Marina and todayToday.

I still think it's odd that people seem to think it's ok to take very young children out, but not older ones. I think that - with the obvious exception of holidays close to GCSEs or KS3 SATs - the opposite is true.

In 9 years of full time education I have only ever taken mine out once - for 3 days tacked onto a May Bank Holiday week - and that was this year.

I agree with others that it sends a poor message to the child, though in the case of those who genuinely couldn't afford a holiday at all during school hols I would say take them out for a week... 2 weeks is too long.

I was going to make the point that NMC did - compulsary education age doesn't start until the term after the child is 5 & the school doesn't have much say in it before then.

TodayToday "What is your point? Because some children leave school functionally illiterate parents should be entitled to take their children out of school during term time for holidays"

That if schools can't teach 40% of children to read in six years, they are in no position to argue that ever single week of school is essential.

TodayToday "I think you need to point the finger of blame at the government and not individual teachers or Head teachers if children leave school at 11 functionally illiterate. Teachers are tied by the constraints of the curriculum."

That would hold water better if all children left school functionally illiterate. Since 60% are functionally literate, though, it's obviously possible.

My fundamental objection is to the way the state says "Unless you have the time or money to do otherwise, you must send your child to a state school or we will punish you" but then sees no problem in wasting the time of the children they have. Why the hell should any child be in a failing school? A bus driver who took the wrong route and mounted the pavement occasionally would be sacked but teachers or headteachers who damage the lifes of tens, hundreds or thousands of children are, to all intents and purposes, immune from any sanction.

Grrrrrr.

and ... relax ...

We looked at camping in Brittany and it was THREE TIMES the normal rate during school holidays. So believe me, overseas holidays can be just as disgracefully overpriced. This is the real issue - not whether people should morally take children out of school. If it wasn't so expensive to go in the holidays, people might not need to go in term-time.

Of course, we never can as DW is a teacher.

UQD, my tip is to book only with French-owned holiday firms. IME French companies/gite owners just don't rack up their prices, unless they are consciously targeting the British market. They obviously can't resist having a go at ripping us off too, but Gites de France properties, for example, booked through the official website, are not marked up so much

I have just asked head for 6 days off for dd for next may and two days at start of next school year. Expected to have to think of other plan for holiday, but got form back today authorised.

Trying out and experiencing different cultures is as much of an education as school. I have no qualms about taking any of the children out of school, with the exception of major exams.

A dad with a boy in in DD's year took his kids out for a couple of weeks to go on an African safari. I was very but for them!

I don't doubt that they learnt more then than they would have done in school at the tail-end of the summer term. (And it's not like he was taking them out to go to Benidorm and play in a Kiddee Korner while he and the missus ate fish and chips and drank lager.)