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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Am I over reacting?

77 replies

Smileyduck · 05/11/2021 20:16

'Good Afternoon,,

Please see attached the work S completed, after A LOT of effort from me to get him started.

It is becoming physically and mentally draining for me to get him to work.

I am also attaching the work completed by another child. The presentation and level of effort between the two is clearly visible.

I appreciate your continued support in this matter.'

My son is a young Y2, is high average to above in reading and maths but has always struggled with writing.

AIBU to think the teacher is being out of order here. I am upset by her comments

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Original poster

Smileyduck · 06/11/2021 06:40

To OPs who have mentioned ADHD/dyslexia in my son. Yes for sure something else is going on for him. I'm not quite sure what or how to get the ball rolling on this. He has traits of ADHD/autism/dyslexia/dysgraphia but these are masked by his strengths - lots of friends, very sporty, great reader and not bad (as you can see) at maths.

OP posts:

Original poster

Smileyduck · 06/11/2021 08:35

So the teacher responded to my email defending her first email and explaining why the other piece of work was of a better standard. I will raise a complaint with the headteacher on Monday. I couldn't resist responding with this:
...and also to add, a child with a solid conceptual understanding of multiplication brought about by lots of manipulation of concrete resources such as numicon before engaging in abstract calculation would never put 19 as a wrong answer to the calculation 6 x 3 because they would intrinsically know that the answer needs to be even.

OP posts:

casinoroyale4ever · 06/11/2021 08:44

It's the wrong question to start with isn't it, the comparison and whose work is better. Your responses were great.

My dd is similar @Smileyduck and the HT needs to know she's got a loose cannon in that teacher.

purpleme12 · 06/11/2021 08:52

Jesus I just can't believe this teacher
Definitely go above her

Lougle · 06/11/2021 08:52

@Smileyduck

So the teacher responded to my email defending her first email and explaining why the other piece of work was of a better standard. I will raise a complaint with the headteacher on Monday. I couldn't resist responding with this: ...and also to add, a child with a solid conceptual understanding of multiplication brought about by lots of manipulation of concrete resources such as numicon before engaging in abstract calculation would never put 19 as a wrong answer to the calculation 6 x 3 because they would intrinsically know that the answer needs to be even.

And they should pick up that all the other answers were even, too.

Iamnotthe1 · 06/11/2021 09:19

Wow. There's a lot to unpick here.

First, sending another child's work out like this is absolutely unprofessional. The tone of the email is also rude and makes me wonder what she is trying to achieve by sending it.

The comment about the impact of getting him to work is ridiculous if she is just talking about being exhausted by it. What's the purpose of saying that? However, it may be more about the time investment that he is requiring/demanding in order to produce work. This could be a concern if it's meaning that other children aren't getting the support they need because all of the time is being invested in getting your son started as he's not doing it himself. The teacher is still not addressing it properly though as the questions around why he is needing so much extra support/time to get going don't seem to be the focus.

Just as a side note: for those saying this multiplication is advanced in Y2, it's not if the children are using arrays, particularly if they are doing so with concrete resources. This isn't learning the four times tables, it's learning the concept of multiplication and is what I would expect to see.

swimdrum · 06/11/2021 10:50

You are not over reacting. I would avoid criticizing the other child's work though. They are just a 6/7 year old child. They probably do not even know that their work is being shared, and they are doing their best just as your DS is doing his best.

mulberrybag5 · 06/11/2021 11:51

This is outrageous. Definitely make a complaint.

ihearttc · 06/11/2021 19:35

I’m a TA in Y2.

First of all, the squares in their books are way too small for this point in Y2 (especially considering how much school they have missed). Secondly, 99% of my class have handwriting on a par with your DS. Thirdly why on earth are they teaching multiplication like that this early in the year! All that demonstrates (from both children) is an ability to rote learn the times tables rather than a deeper understanding of how it works. And lastly if they are teaching it like that why are they starting with the 4 and 6 times tables.

Ours are still on place value and adding/subtracting…

ihearttc · 06/11/2021 19:37

@Iamnotthe1

I’m assuming they are using arrays but then it should be shown in the book alongside the calculation to show understanding. Not just the calculation like that.

Amammai · 06/11/2021 19:52

Your email response is just perfect!

Iamnotthe1 · 06/11/2021 20:25

[quote ihearttc]@Iamnotthe1

I’m assuming they are using arrays but then it should be shown in the book alongside the calculation to show understanding. Not just the calculation like that.[/quote]
Only if they are at the pictorial stage. If the arrays have been done using concrete resources then a visual representation of those arrays wouldn't be shown.

ihearttc · 06/11/2021 20:42

Ah we show evidence in our books along side it at this point during the year…either with drawn arrays or photos of the concrete resources.

We also follow Power Maths anyway (apart from 1 lesson a week) and we definitely aren’t to to Multiplication anyway yet…

Original poster

Smileyduck · 06/11/2021 21:58

@ihearttc

Ah we show evidence in our books along side it at this point during the year…either with drawn arrays or photos of the concrete resources.

We also follow Power Maths anyway (apart from 1 lesson a week) and we definitely aren’t to to Multiplication anyway yet…

I am as baffled as you are and I am a primary specialist maths teacher. I do not know how they did it and DS won't give me a straight answer. He probably did it from memory because we do alot of this sort of stuff at bedtime - it's his way of procrastinating about bedtime as he knows I will always want to do a bit of maths with him. He wouldn't have done 6 x 4 from memory. He did bring a sheet home a few days ago with arrays but given his fine motor difficulties, he wouldn't have been able to draw his own array I wouldn't have thought. He might have got the answer by repeated addition. The way they teach maths is a mess, very traditional and definitely not through a mastery approach - mainly cobbled together worksheets. The other day he brought an 'abacus' worksheet home!

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ihearttc · 07/11/2021 07:33

@Smileyduck

Wow given your job, I can imagine that it must be even more frustrating for you. I think your reply was perfect.

Ours are having trouble adding 2 single digit numbers together (covid impact plus a very low cohort) so can’t imagine them being able to do multiplication for a while yet. Your DS sounds amazing!

Original poster

Smileyduck · 07/11/2021 08:23

[quote ihearttc]@Smileyduck

Wow given your job, I can imagine that it must be even more frustrating for you. I think your reply was perfect.

Ours are having trouble adding 2 single digit numbers together (covid impact plus a very low cohort) so can’t imagine them being able to do multiplication for a while yet. Your DS sounds amazing![/quote]
I was actually working with Y2 in my own school which has a much more deprived cohort on Friday. They all have their little carton of dienes and are using them to add 10 to any 2 digit number. The rigour with which they have been taught this and the careful progression seen in their books (taking no credit for this - this has come from their class teacher) is worlds apart from the nonsense my grandson gets.

Looking back at his work from above - I explicitly help him with understanding and don't just fire questions at him during our bedtime routine - I'm hoping what he has done is seen the question above is 3 x 4 =12 and knows that as a fact. Below is 6 x 4 and understands that 6 x 4 is double 3 x 4 and so has just doubled 12. But that is probably just wishful thinking...

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50ShadesOfCatholic · 07/11/2021 08:30

Oh this is awful, I feel so bad for you and for your little boy. He is a small child learning. Where is the respect for the child, and indeed respect for the parent.

She's in the wrong job.

DelphiniumBlue · 07/11/2021 08:47

I think there's something else going on- it's a lot of effort for a teacher to be writing home, and she wouldn't be doing it if she didn't think there was a problem.
I think what she's actually complaining about is how long it her to persuade him to get going on the task, and that she thinks even when he did, he wasn't giving it his best effort.
She has expressed herself clumsily and may be inexperienced but I think you need an actual conversation with her to find out what the issue is.

purpleme12 · 07/11/2021 09:24

Well yes but that's OP's point isn't it
The way this was put across would put anyone's hackles up which shouldn't be happening

Original poster

Smileyduck · 07/11/2021 09:24

@DelphiniumBlue

I think there's something else going on- it's a lot of effort for a teacher to be writing home, and she wouldn't be doing it if she didn't think there was a problem. I think what she's actually complaining about is how long it her to persuade him to get going on the task, and that she thinks even when he did, he wasn't giving it his best effort. She has expressed herself clumsily and may be inexperienced but I think you need an actual conversation with her to find out what the issue is.

Yes I do agree with you and yes we are in regular email contact about it. He has recently been but on the SEN register for fine motor issues. He has had a private ed psych assessment and a raft of suggestions for supporting him. I think his intelligence masks his learning needs and vice versa, making him appear lazy and unmotivated. She knows all of this which makes this email so much worse.

OP posts:

Headteacher412 · 07/11/2021 10:41

As a headteacher, that's shocking. I'd want to know straight away if a member of my staff sent an email like that and would follow through.

Crazycrazylady · 07/11/2021 20:38

Absolutely you need to contact the head. she sounds absolutely bathsh&t.

I'd worry about her mental health to be honest.

Toktokboki · 07/11/2021 22:41

Sounds like she sent it in a rage and didn't
think it through. No excuses though - it is incredibly unprofessional.

bananabuddy3 · 12/11/2021 17:30

Any progress on this one OP? That email would have got the teacher the sack in my school I’m sure!

Original poster

Smileyduck · 12/11/2021 18:12

@bananabuddy3

Any progress on this one OP? That email would have got the teacher the sack in my school I’m sure!

Thanks for asking. I did complain and I am quite happy with the outcome. The headteacher called (I emailed my complaint). Both her and the deputy have spoken to the teacher about how inappropriate the email was. We then had a good conversation about how the school can support more with Ds issues. The next day he said that the whole class didn't have to write the long date or learning objective anymore - it's on a sheet they stick in their book instead!

I didn't really want the teacher sacked and actually DS seems quite happy and settled at school.

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