Private primary or local friends

[CornieliusRevival]

Hello! We are starting to think about primary schools for my DD for next September. We could afford private for primary but the two that we like are not very local to us. The other option is the Ofsted outstanding CofE school. We are likely to get a place there as we attend the church next to it.

My DD is an only child. She seems clever (I am biased here), she is sociable and outgoing. I just wonder if, being an only, it would be better for her to go to a local primary so she had local friends or whether the smaller class sizes would be a real benefit. The private schools that we like are very selective so this decision may be made for us but any advice would be great.

the obvious missing information is OP's own school background and that of her other half.

the state and private experiences are radically different for both kids and parents.

if OP's own background and/or that of her friends/family/the offspring thereof is private then the state option will in all likelihood feel like an inferior alternative.

if they're state then the private option will be a serious undertaking, definitely something to go into with eyes open.

@rattusrattus20 This is a fair point. We both went to private schools and know the benefits of smaller classes and extra curricular activities. However, we also know what it is like to grow up without local friends during the holidays. We have siblings so always had someone there to play with and my DD sadly won't. It is one of the reasons I feel so torn. There are benefits to both paths and lots to think about. Thanks for the reply.

Local primary every time, but only if it's an excellent school.

Some of the posters on here haven't yet been through the experience, their children are still pre school or just starting reception, so they may well say private, without any experience.

My two attended an outstanding primary. It was a wonderful choice. They had local friends, could walk to school and excelled at school. One is particularly strong in Maths and he and another pupil were set Maths from the year group ahead. The teaching, the wellbeing and the social side were second to none.

Both went on to what some call 'super selective' state grammars. They have to travel some distance, friends aren't local and while they are thriving academically (with good grades predicted in GCSES next year) if we had had a decent comp, I'd have sent them there. They do have friends at school, but their best set of friends is still the group from primary.

Do not underestimate the power of local. Do not underestimate the power of friendship and happiness.

We turned down the local primary for the independent prep school and I think it was a great choice. My child was supported and really grew in confidence. Things changed at home and I had two more (completely unplanned) who have gone to the local primary school I originally turned down. We absolutely love it, but I do think my youngest would of benefited from the smaller classes in a prep school.

The issue has been more secondary school as I had planned to send my eldest to a private school but with three children this was not an option anymore, and the transition from private to state was very hard as they had absolutely no local friends.

There are lots of advantages to a private school apart from the education and yes I'm going to sound like a complete snob, but things like accent and speaking properly, the opportunities for other activities inside and outside. It's more apparent to us as we live in a not great area. So for example theatre trips in our local state school get cancelled as not enough students can afford it. It's also more obvious to me as I'm from a not great area and went to a private secondary school and I think this has helped me have the right 'fit' in my career and helped me progress.

The problem with this is that most of those answering "choose state with local friends" have chosen that for their own children and therefore have nothing to compare it to. We did state for our eldest (she’s now at an independent senior school) but moved our second child to private prep at 7. I wish we’d done the same with DC1, even though she may have ended up at the same senior school.

The private prep provides so much more in terms of extra curricular activities and just feels like such a broader and deeper educational experience. It just doesn’t compare with the (outstanding) state primary. As you would hope for the fees we are paying!

But being in local primary until 7 has given our DC a group of local friends (and us too!) so in a way we’ve ended up with the best of both worlds!

@NLondondiva this is very true and I think if we did choose the local school that the option to move at 7 would be a good one. There is a good independent locally that does start a 7 years old.

@1sunnyday23 thanks for your experience. It's great that both options have worked well for your children.

I think I will have a good look round the local schools as well as the 7+ independent. This morning was just so lovely going to the local woods for a walk and meeting some of her little friends there too (wasn't planned). Neither DH or myself grew up here so don't have many local connections and I would like DD to feel part of this community.

I would 100% choose the Outstanding local primary - a school operating at Outstanding level should more than be able to meet your child's individual needs. Small class sizes in private education don't necessarily equate to outstanding teaching and learning. Plus you have the benefit of your DD making friends in the local community who may be attending local organisations together like gymnastics or brownies or similar.

Oh, this is a tough one. I've taught in an outstanding CofE state primary school (KS2) and am now looking at primary schools for my daughter.

We've been completely avoiding church during the pandemic (I'm pregnant), so our local outstanding CofE primary is out of the question. However, I do have some issues with it, and also with the school where I previously taught. These mainly have to do with class size and behaviour.

The behaviour issues in a large class spring up more in later years and can impede on learning time. Earlier, I'd say fine, but it's definitely tougher after Year 2 to manage a classroom due to the ever-increasing range of abilities, and given the massive workload for teachers and cuts in support staff, trying to make sure everyone is doing their best all the time with thoroughly-planned differentiated activities for every lesson (at least to the standard that I'd ideally want as a parent) is simply impossible. State primaries have excellent teachers but are undeniably being squeezed. We are opting for independent.

We also debated this long and hard and went with private. It was important to me that DD made friends locally so I would have encouraged Beavers or Rainbows but as it happened several of her classmates turned out to live in our neighbourhood and she has also made friendships with the children on our street during lockdown.

I must admit, when the kids on our street are all walking to school together in the morning, I do feel a bit sad that she isn't a part of that, but her school is absolutely wonderful, her teacher knows her incredibly well and stretches her just the right amount, she knows children in all year groups and has friends of many ages, she has a rich extra curricular life... I don't regret our decision at all.

We decided on state primary for DD1. I had this notion of local friends. We live in a tiny hamlet and our school is 2 miles away. She never had any truly local friends. Half the time she didn’t really have friends at all. There were a couple of DC I thought she would go to school with who live near us but they went to a another tiny village school further away so they never played together. I might as well have sent her to the independent school we liked. Local children don’t always translate into friends.

For DD2, we moved her from state to independent at 7. Yes, friends were spread out. It wasn’t cliquey and she was included in everything. But I was always in the car! Holidays - yes DD saw friends.

Planning for secondary is key. DD1 boarded for secondary and went from state primary. All those immediate friends at school was a winner. DD2 went to the same secondary. If you hsve very lofty secondary ambitions, you might need a prep. If you don’t, bright DC can access most standard private secondary schools. DD1 was one mark below top score in our 11 plus. Not sure how ahead she was at primary but she was the only state school girl at her boarding school. Always in the top 5 for achievement there. So all the privately educated ones were not that far ahead.

Local primary everytime. You can spend extras on extracurricular activities and tutoring. Private school classes tend to be smaller so that means less choice of friends. Also personally I think it’s good for children to understand ‘normal’ society. If someone starts prep at 4 they will have literally never come across anyone on free school meals or on a low income. You can always go private later on.

Ps there are a lot of assumptions on this thread that private education is actually better than state education - the quality of teaching is completely down to the particular school in question. Very much not all private schools have better teaching than stage schools - some private schools are awful (and yes some are brilliant).

How far away are the preps and where do their pupils come from? You may find that there are several local children at them already.

I think you are wise to go look around. If possible I would pay close attention to older children's work, e.g. examples of work by year 5 and 6 pupils. This is where you may find considerable differences between schools.

As other posters have suggested, research where you want for secondary (be it at year 7 or year 9). If you are aiming for a selective private secondary, have a look at their intake requirements and work backwards.

But it's hard to say without knowing the schools in question - some preps are excellent and worth every penny, others are trading on the reputation of independent schools as a whole and are not worth it. Equally, state school provision varies tremendously (even within schools ranked "outstanding").

You really won’t notice much difference in work! Does everyone think state educated DC have Sen or cannot write properly? You would see no work from DC who are struggling at school in a private school, that’s for sure. But you will see work from very capable DC who are just as intelligent. Four in DDs old state school class got pieces at Oxford and Cambridge. Mainly I assume because they were light years behind their private school peers at primary?!

pieces? Places....

@PresentingPercy

You really won’t notice much difference in work! Does everyone think state educated DC have Sen or cannot write properly? You would see no work from DC who are struggling at school in a private school, that’s for sure. But you will see work from very capable DC who are just as intelligent. Four in DDs old state school class got pieces at Oxford and Cambridge. Mainly I assume because they were light years behind their private school peers at primary?!

No, they got into these universities because their parents spent a lot of time preparing them at home/hired good tutors. In fact the chance to get into a leading Uni is higher with academic parents from a state school because admissions actively seek out state applicants. But we are not even talking about secondary here!

Also sorry but what does this have to do with SEN? Some people have SEN and get into Oxbridge...you are using it as a replacement for stupid or something...

@PresentingPercy

I said there could be considerable differences in work between schools. I never said state school pupils would be the ones doing poor quality work.

As someone who was taken out of state primary in year 3 on a full scholarship to private prep, I say choose the state primary with local friends.

My own children attend the local state primary and it’s lovely. Ok the facilities aren’t as good as the local prep school, but academic results are better and grammar admissions rate also better.

It’s priceless developing strong local friendships. I have had a ‘good’ education but in my 40s have no close friends at all. Not because I’m not a good person to be friends with but because my own school friends live far away so we’ve lost touch. I notice that people with strong bonds locally are happy regardless of money and status and other things people concern themselves with.
Money is important too but I think that standards in state schools these days can be very high and home input and environment are also very important.

State or independent isn't always the issue. It can also depend on the individual school.

I did a primary PGCE and between us, my friends and I had placements in a variety of schools, one of which was a dreadful independent. It closed, unsurprisingly, soon after.

My DC went to the state school so that they would rub shoulders with DC with parents from all backgrounds not just professional. It was excellent. DS started learning piano in school and went in early for rugby every week. Other instruments and sports were available! The local preps may have done more but my DC didn't miss out.

It totally comes down to what the school is like. You need to be able to go and look round them (I know probably not possible these days) in order to make an informed decision that isn't just based on preconceptions of state v independent. As a teacher, I've taught in both the local outstanding primary and local independent prep in my area. And I've gone with the local outstanding primary for my own DC. Between these two schools, the primary was more forward thinking, had more dynamic teaching and learning and felt like more of a 'real life' cross section of the community. That's not to say I didn't like the prep - it was a nice school too - and while the small class sizes are an attractive prospect, it doesn't always equate to the best lessons and learning experiences. It would be great if you could actually see the schools you're considering in action, OP. That's the best way to make a decision!

Thanks for all of these replies. Posters saying we need to think about secondary are absolutely right but that is just another dilemma. We are in a grammar area and not super selective (3 choices who take top 25% of 11+ results) so DD stands a good chance (perhaps with tutoring) of getting in to one of them. However, we are also debating sending her private for secondary even if we opt for local state primary. We know we are lucky to have such good options locally and have the ability to choose private if we chose to.

There are just so many choices and we feel the pressure of choosing the 'right' choice. Academic opportunities are really valued by us but more importantly, I really just want her to be happy and have a good group of friends. So, hoping one of the schools we look at jumps out at us. We hope one of the schools will fit with us and make the choice easy. Fingers crossed!

I went to a school 10 miles from home and I still resent the decision now, I didn’t fit in at school because I didn’t live in the town and I didn’t fit in at my village because I didn’t know anyone. Private school is fast becoming not worth the money with all the (correct) focus on inclusion - extra curricular will count for nothing in the future and most children with involved parents will do well at a reasonable school.

@Lnix is spot on. It's not a question of "state v private", its a question of which is best suits your daughter with the options you have.

There is no blanket rule that private means more options / more diverse or better education. There are brilliant and dreadful schools in both sectors.

Speak to parents if you can who already have children there or, if you're aiming for grammar school, speak to parents who have children there and how they're finding it. I can only speak for my area (also a grammar school area) and having been through the 11+ process several times, I don't know any children who have passed that didn't have tutoring - whether they were in state or private. The prep schools spend most of Year 5 prepping for the exams (taken at the beginning of Yr 6 here) so the whole set up is different - state schools aren't allowed to do that.

Do think about secondary option - the attention from a smaller class size isn't necessarily an advantage in secondary school if you opt for state. Certainly my experience of state grammar, as happy as I am with it, is that much is left to the pupils. They have to be self motivated, capable of doing their own research / study. Its not on a plate for them. A child used to say a class of 10 in a private prep with lots of attention / interaction with a teacher may struggle with that transition.

@butwhatcanwedo I don't think a state primary would necessarily have solved your issue.

I was at a local state primary throughout, moved onto local state secondary and then onto private in yr8 because my parents were not happy with various aspects of the secondary. Only one girl from my primary went to the same secondary and the school made a point of placing us in forms so we did not share a single class together. Despite living at the same address throughout my entire childhood, I also did not end up in the same circles as primary friends through any clubs such as gymnastics, swimming etc. Those I stayed in touch with did not last beyond end of year 7 because so much changed.

I think the local friends is very much dependent on where in the country you are and how densely populated it is. It was of little value to me and I feel that I may have been more confident in a different primary setting that was more nurturing which is why I am opting for private for my child. Like you, I have also struggled with close friends and can say its only in the last 6 years that I honestly feel like I have really close friends with a strong bond. Not a single one is from childhood though

Where teaching is concerned, I do not have a single doubt that state school teachers are exceptional and some of the best teachers. The problem is the government makes life extremely difficult for them by giving them endless targets, massive workload and the range of abilities in each class stretches far and wide. Private school teachers have a much easier job with small classes, similar aptitude (if selective) and engaged parents.