Is Maths Teaching in Prep Schools purely driven by 11+?

[TrojaninTroy]

After a year of unsuccessfully trying to get DC's Head of School (an all-through indie) to address the maths needs of our very numerate child, I think the penny has finally dropped. The maths teaching in this independent prep-school is aimed at getting children through their 11+, preferably to its own senior school. This is the unspoken agenda. Therefore it is taught to the middle ability/borderline kids and not to the more able, who can do it all anyway.

As an ex-State primary school teacher, this is not how I expected the maths teaching in a well thought of independent school to be for my child. I thought everything would be in place for DC to have the best teaching that could be delivered by a school with small classes, supported full time by a TA and the most needy/disrupted children selected out. Was I hopelessly naive to believe all the Tatler bullshit about this school? Are all independents like this or have we just been unlucky?

Although some Mumsnetters may perceive this to be another private school bashing thread, it is more a question about what we should actually expect from an independent. We don't have any doubt as to DC's ability to pass the 11+, so that wasn't why we chose this particular school. More to do with the things that cash-strapped state schools just can't provide these days.

@TrojaninTroy it sounds like you are at a school that since it was last inspected has slipped in quality. This happens in both sectors-- schools rated outstanding being downgraded by Ofsted to RI after a long gap between inspections is fairly common.

A good school regardless of sector should differentiate work and track and monitor pupil progress carefully. Both Ofsted, the ISI and the governing boards are all tasked with ensuring this is the case but there are always schools that fail to live up to that.

You should move schools and find an alternative that has recently been inspected that you feel can better serve your child (either in the state or private sector). Speaking to parents is also critical.

Few private school governing boards publish any minutes or criteria for their existence. Who knows what they look at? Who knows what data they receive or if it’s trustworthy. Minutes of state GBs are available to parents. That doesn’t mean they all know what they are doing either but at least there is some transparency.

My DDs did go to good private schools but DD2 went to a EY in a small prep that really didn’t know the time of day after about YR. I think parents are sold schools by slick PR and marketing. It’s way more difficult to find out what’s really happening. Often when parents pay, they defend their choice. They look a bit daft otherwise! Usually when DC don’t get to grammars or targeted independents, the trouble starts.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree @PresentingPercy. I've posted the evidence regarding how data and the data monitoring systems are scrutinised, how progress and teaching is tracked and this is all very public information that parents have access to similar to Ofsted. The inspection involves review of marking, parent and student interviews, lesson observations etc.

Also, parents vote with their feet. It is not like the state system where you are largely stuck with whatever you get and have to make the best of it. Parents can and do move schools if they aren't happy which is one of the additional ways schools are kept accountable. They are forced to close if they don't keep parents satisfied.

No inspection regime is going to prevent schools that at times will need improving in either sector. But my personal experience is that state schools struggle more with differentiation for gifted pupils because of budget constraints. A friend of mine was a governor at an Ofsted Outstanding state school and in charge of Gifted and SenCo. The school is amazing but simply didn't have the budget to differentiate for the very brightest (like top 1-2%) though could do so for the top 10% and focused the rest of the resources on ensuring no one fell behind. My friend had to extend her son herself outside of school as he fell into that top 1-2% category.

I can't see any evidence either that the teaching is in general worse in the private sector either which seems to be the contention of a few posters. In fact, the exact opposite is proven out by the results. UCL data has shown that a child who does their A-levels in a private school after having done GCSEs at state school will outperform pupils with the same GCSEs who remain in state education.

Not every issue is about the sector. People should judge schools individually and refrain from generalising and making sweeping statements.

Is it the EN school, OP?

Very interesting. We are having similar issues with a N London prep.

I think you would see little evidence in some prep schools stretching the most able. Largely because, as the OP says, they don’t assess properly and teach to the middle. Parents are paying for this. State parents are not so you tend to accept limitations. However as I personally know 3 state educated dc who have read maths at Cambridge, it’s certainly possible for state schools to ensure dc are stretched.

What isi like to see in individual schools is very different to the nation wide data Ofsted have at their fingertips. I would like to see evidence of a nation wide comparison of progress and attainment for prep schools. There simply isn’t one so parents have to make their own minds up via presentations and boasting. Often innscurate assertions. Only when you have national data can you truly compare. What head’s say about attainment is often marketing and bears little resemblance to reality. In some schools.

As an example: parents don’t know any data for the Sats results or how x private school compares with local state schools. They don’t know if not following the NC is better or not. They probably don’t know if staff are qualified or not. Etc. Governors don’t produce minutes for parents. So information is hard to come by. You have to trust the school. That’s not always something parents should do. I’ve seen isi reports where Ofsted would have judged RI without a shadow of a doubt. Parents don’t see this in an isi report. It’s just words and parents don’t necessarily understand the importance of what they are reading because it’s not graded or put in context with other schools.

I have sent both DDs to private schools and been a governor of 3 state schools. I have even had a deputy head of a local private school join the GB because he wanted to learn how his school could be better in terms of data and analysis.