Prefer state but need smaller classes - help!

[Oldwreck]

My DS is in year 3 at a very good state primary school. He’s very young for the year and has always found the work rather a struggle. He has also fallen further behind during lockdown as he’s just too young to find the motivation to do tasks sent home by school (despite lots of help
from me). He’s a bright boy but always feels like he is trying to cling on. School have never been very concerned, saying he will mature eventually and catch up, but I am not sure about this and his confidence is being affected. In all other respects I love the school - the fact that everyone is different, the atmosphere, the passion of the teachers etc. Despite his worries over the work he is pretty happy there and has good friends. He doesn’t want to move school although I think most of children would say that.
After a lot of worrying we decided that he needs to be at a school with smaller classes and more resources to give him the extra support he needs (his current school have tried to help and the teachers are wonderful but they just don’t have the resources). He sat an exam and has been offered a place at a local prep school, which is meant to be an excellent school. It would tick the box in terms of smaller classes, more support etc., but I am not sure that my son would suit the traditional prep school environment. He’s quite quirky, not at all sporty and not hugely confident until he feels comfortable. I have a real fear of the over confident sporty environment having had experience of it as a child. I am worried about it being rather two dimensional - as if anyone different would stand out like a sore thumb.

My instinct is that the prep school isn’t for him, but we are worried that he is slipping further and further behind as things stand. We have tried a tiny bit of extra tutoring which has helped enormously but he hates having to do it on top of his school day.
We also don’t have a good state secondary school near where we live and so will be looking at private for secondary - and are worried he won’t stand a chance of getting a place if we don’t move him into the private system now.
There isn’t an alternative private school near us so it comes down to a choice between great state school where he’s falling increasingly behind, or the prep school where he may get more support with his work but not really fit in.
I’m well aware how spoilt and privileged I must sound. We are very lucky to have this choice at all, but any advice would be appreciated. Thank you so much.

I think you could well be disappointed at what your ds gets from the private school. They are not renowned for being great with kids that are struggling. If your ds finds school difficult then being in a smaller class with very bright kids is not necessarily going to help him. State school teachers have to differentiate to meet the needs of the class; private school teachers may not. I suspect that the best thing you can do with your ds if you have the funds is to pay for and insist he has an hour of maths and English tutoring twice a week. He might not like it but it will give him the 1:1 explanations and encouragement you think he needs.

Thank you. The private school in question is not particularly selective so I’m hoping there would be others at the same stage as him. A lot of families take their children out of our school because they just can’t cope with or recognise SEN. And others that stay there but are often hugely frustrated by the lack of support. I don’t blame the school - they are just stretched. I think the problem in our case is that because our son is not disruptive or severely behind he isn’t prioritised (and I understand why that is). We have the added complication that we need him prepared for the 11+ . We’ve been thru it with another child who is very academic and don’t think he would cope with all the additional tutoring and preparation needed for 11+ if you’re at a state school in our area. Although of course his happiness now is more important than these longer term plans - but this is a big consideration too. All your advice has been much appreciated. If anyone could give me a steer as to how to post a question about the school that would be great - do I need to go onto a local mumsnet forum or just post under education/primary as I’ve done here? Thank you.

I think I’d stay state and add in tutoring, because of the current level of disruption generally. With a child who is already a reluctant learner, keeping existing friendship groups would be a good thing, I think. You could check out Outschool, which offers a great range of classes. We found great maths and English tutors, and foreign language tuition during the first lockdown. Handwriting - the magic loop method changed my y2 daughters handwriting dramatically.

I didn’t get this right for my own son OP - sounds similar to yours . With the benefit of hindsight pursue the maths and English tutoring ... if you can find a fun tutor who he gets on with it will just become part of his routine. I don’t regret leaving my son in the state sector - I do regret coming to the tutoring in yr5

Thanks. We have been tutoring already but I don’t think it’s enough for him to bridge the gap, and also it won’t solve the 11+ problem for him (it does for some but won’t be enough for him in my view). I do see your point - and that’s the advice I’d probably give for another child. I suppose there’s no ideal solution and this is still one we are considering. Thanks.

Are you sure the 11+ is going to be right for him?

Where we live even the most academic kids at state schools are getting several hours of tutoring a week to get places at private secondaries.

@RememberSelfCompassion good question - no I’m not, but I don’t feel we have an alternative (other than moving house) as the local state secondary has big problems - it’s fine for those in top sets but based on my research into it will be disastrous for DS. It’s sad because obviously many don’t have a choice.

I’m going to have to shoot off so apologies for not replying to future posts for a while. So good to have heard your varied experiences.

Every child should have their educational needs met, the schools should apply for funding. If you read the disability act it covers a lot of these expectations. Yes schools are stretched, but a lot of SENcos don’t recognize or push for disabilities if they have a few very difficult children the resources go there instead.

It can be done and should be done.

Dyslexia can be taught with scaffolding if you have the right teachers in place.

@cansu

I think you could well be disappointed at what your ds gets from the private school. They are not renowned for being great with kids that are struggling. If your ds finds school difficult then being in a smaller class with very bright kids is not necessarily going to help him. State school teachers have to differentiate to meet the needs of the class; private school teachers may not. I suspect that the best thing you can do with your ds if you have the funds is to pay for and insist he has an hour of maths and English tutoring twice a week. He might not like it but it will give him the 1:1 explanations and encouragement you think he needs.

Of course they differentiate! Part of the job! Much easier to with fewer children as well. I've been really impressed, they cater well for the brightest and those.who need more support.

I am a bit sceptical of small class sizes being used as a massive selling point by prep schools. My DC are at a prep with very small class sizes (12-13 in each class) but there are only 2 TAs split between 3 classes and the DC rarely get to do reading on their own with a teacher or TA. They also never get to work in small groups with a TA. Also for some lessons they mix the classes into bigger groups. I'm in the process of trying to move both DC to selective preps as very unhappy with the current school (for a number of reasons).
I'm not saying all preps are the same, but I wouldn't just look at the headline class size numbers.

I agree that tiny classes aren't great either - about 15-20 is great, and I say that as an ex-teacher too. Can't get lost like they can in a big class but enough pupils to have challenge and a thriving classroom.

It all depends on the prep . My son has quite severe dyslexia and anxiety caused by his dyslexia and the school have been very supportive.
We are in a very hot housey area of London and my sons achool have some very high achievers and a good portion of EHCP children too. All are supported and that’s what a good prep school will do. He has 2 x small group and 121 sessions a week and we have an external tutor for him too.
Realistically if you want him to have a shot at 11+ , and given that he is so far behind, I think you’ll need the prepping that the prep school provides and also the steering towards the right secondary schools for him (which might not be the ones you have in mind).
It’s normal for private secondary schools to provide transport (at a cost) so don’t assume you have to drop off and pick up every day either - this may give you more choice at secondary level too, but he has to get an offer from these schools first and a good prep school will help you on that journey .
If you are feeling brave enough to name the school then you have an offer for then you’re likely to get the insight you need here.

Tutor op, use the money for an English tutor and a maths tutor.
They can make sure his basics are strong and then help him keep up.
However make sure they have some actual sen background, so they can deploy other strategies. One tutor we tried put dd on a computer, said she's fine and would be fine with extra support. A teacher with no sen experience, the other tutor we tried actually pin pointed what she was struggling with, noted letter reversal, bored, can't sit still.. And said and showed us the different resources she would be using to support, we went with her.

I think tutor are even better than private because they will offer your child a bespoke service based on precisely what they need.

Thank you everyone. @After8itsgrownuptime cheeky of me to ask, but I don’t suppose you’d feel happy saying which bit of London you’re in would you?

@Oldwreck we are SW London/Surrey borders

My ds in yr 5 is at a small prep. He has ASD and dyslexia and is quirky. Sporting ability zero.The broad deep curriculum, interesting clubs, opportunities to try all sorts of things is fantastic. School is supportive and nurturing. We access learning support - not intensive support just 1 1:1 lesson per week and a dyslexia group - for no extra. There are confident sporty types, but plenty who are not!

Tbh I would get an educational psychology assessment. Investigate prep school support for mild Sen. They will have kids with dyslexia.

If it looks like your ds would be accepted and supported even if he has dyslexia/similar, I would move him. You might want to wait until post lockdown though.

Good luck.

Thank you @ChocolateHoneycomb. That sounds like a good plan. Your son’s school sounds great!

Hello,

Sorry for resurrecting this old thread, but I’d be grateful to hear any experiences from those who moved from state to prep, or who had spring/summer born boys who were struggling.

Our DS seems bright academically, reads and does maths well, but is behind with writing, has a tendency to be a bit silly in class and doesn’t seem to love school or to be thriving. We have a nearby single sex pre prep and prep, and am considering moving him for year 2. I think he’d benefit from wider extra curricular and smaller class sizes, but note what others have said about how prep isn’t a silver bullet.

Grateful for any advice or experiences. Thank you.

@MyLeftFoot1792 I don't have any experience unfortunately, I just came on to say I'm in a similar position to you, and likewise considering the move for my DS for Y2.

He is bright but lacks confidence, and I feel like the opportunity to be exposed to a wide variety of subjects and activities would benefit him exponentially. I want my DS to enjoy his education, and to instil the right attitude to learning early on.

Sorry I don't have any help for you, but following with interest!

@Superhotwheels its so hard to know what to do for the best isn’t it? My DS is a very happy go lucky little boy, but sensitive too. He’s inclined to be a bit silly, and I can’t tell whether he’s just not suited to a class of 30 or whether his inexperienced teacher (who just left mid year!) was a big part of the problem. I worry a stricter, more formal prep school wouldn’t help him either. I don’t want to make a big mistake by moving him, but equally don’t want to regret leaving him where he is if he doesn’t ultimately thrive!

@MyLeftFoot1792 is your DS in Y1 currently then like mine?

It is very hard to know what is best. Ultimately my DS isn't unhappy where he is, I just feel like he'd reach his full potential at this other school and be more appropriately challenged. He's also very sensitive and just needs a nurturing environment to help him come out of his shell. I can't explain it but I just feel like it's a better place for him - but right now, a feeling isn't enough for me to move him! If he consistently came home to say he was desperately unhappy, it would feel like an easier choice!

Is it an option to take him along to see the school? Could you do an afternoon there? Do you know much about the current class size?

Most people often say private secondary is more important than primary, and whilst I'd probably objectively agree with that for most, I think for mine he would really benefit from having that strong foundation from the start and building his confidence, which I think will sustain him into the secondary years

I agree with you; yes, my DS is in year 1. The state schools where we live are outstanding (no grammars nearby) so it’s hard to know what to do for the best. We could afford prep at a pinch, but locally the big private seniors are boarding, which we wouldn’t want to do, so left with that quandary also at 13.

It’s a good idea to take him to look round, thank you. The pre-prep do stay and play sessions, so we could always do these and see if he likes it. I’ve read elsewhere that you shouldn’t move a happy child, but I’m worried that he’s not thriving at state and that we’re missing an opportunity to do better by him. If he gets middling grades or doesn’t do that well I’m sure I’ll always regret it, but equally if I move him and he’s miserable it could all end up worse.

Hi @MyLeftFoot1792 and others. Here’s an update from me (my son is also summer born).
We did move our son to the private prep. His physical symptoms (which we now understand were anxiety related) improved drastically almost overnight. We now know he has ADHD and another, less common, diagnosis which also affects his learning quite significantly, and we now know the big classes and his undiagnosed difficulties were nightmarish for him at the state school and led to significant anxiety. None of this was picked up at the state school (because he wasn’t disruptive and kept his head above water academically, just, and there was only one sendco for a huge school). It wasn’t actually picked up at the prep either but their SEND department was supportive of my efforts to explore it. At least they showed an interest, which we sadly didn’t get at the state.
Anyway….the smaller classes and quieter environment at the prep was good for him. BUT as we got closer to the 11+ the pressure ramped up and his symptoms started to reappear and he got very stressed again and struggled a lot with going into school (this was pre-diagnosis). So although you might get wider opportunities in a prep in the early years (something you mentioned), it can end up being very narrow and 11+/common entrance focused by year 5, which I feel is such a shame. But we did feel more supported as the teachers were able to give us and him more time.
We were very lucky. A new prep opened nearby that fed straight through to
a private secondary school that we liked. He moved into the new prep for year 6 and managed to avoid 11+ and SATS altogether! There was none of the narrowing of subjects as a result (this narrowing also happens at state schools as the SATS approach but it’s not as extreme), and the whole environment was gentle and nurturing. It suited him down to the ground and also meant that he moved
on to secondary school with a big group of friends and hugely improved confidence. Adjustments are being made for him because of the diagnoses he’s received (support with this at the second prep was amazing) and he’s
like a different boy. School can still be a struggle for him but we never thought in our wildest dreams that he would have adjusted to secondary so well.
So - I think for some children (not all) the small classes you get at a prep, and teachers who are not as stretched as state teachers, can be a huge benefit. Especially for those with SEND. But I also think for any child who feels the pressure or struggles at school (for whatever reason), a prep that feeds through to a senior school is a wonderful choice - and a very different option from a traditional prep route.
I would also add that we’ve
only experienced one state school so can only comment based on that experience. And the experience may be different for a child without SEND - and every SEND child is different in terms of what they need of course.
Sorry to go on - wishing you the best of luck.