Year 5, Should we move school

[Cyqi]

My DS is in year 5 in a popular local independent school. He is in the top set in his year. We are generally layback and trust the school doing their job providing good education to my child. I am not educated in this country, thus not familiar with he UK system. We are getting increasingly unhappy with school. When trying to discuss future schools, his teacher push everything to the headmaster, while the headmaster just recommend purely based on what he sees on the assessment results (he did not do very well in the last assessment) without any consideration of the child character, strong and weak point, school suitability and so on. He does not appear to know much about DS. The recommended schools are either the local comprehensives and some mid range indies. I was expecting better considering DS in the top set in all subjects. I was wondering if there is anything wrong with DS study, as in every parent meeting I was told DS is top student. I went back to his form tutor asking what his current position in his year, how well he is doing with his work. The answer I got from the form tutor was she was not familiar with the details of each subjects and I should ask each of his subject tutor. So I have a form tutor don't know the overall performance of my DS, a headmaster not bothered about his future.

DS is very good at math. I let him try the UKMT math challenge at the beginning of year 5 at home, he is one mark away from a Silver. I asked his math teacher if I can enter him into the math challenge, but been told it is only for year 7plus. I know a lot of schools allow entry from year 3!

Ok after all these rant, should I consider move him to a different school at year 6? He is generally happy in the school. Considering this year is examination year for him, there are too many things to consider. Any advice?

Well it sounds like the school is okay generally. You are concerned about them not putting him forward for an academic secondary. I am not familiar with the independent school system, but isn't there another way around this rather than changing schools? I thought the more selective schools had an exam, couldn't you still insist he be put forward for the exam?

I sympathise, as I am also unhappy with my son's school. I am trying to find a way round all the shortcomings, because my son is happy there, he doesn't want to move.

The schools job is to recommend schools based on test results (usually CAT scores), feedback from his subject teachers and also based on his personality. Perhaps the schools you want are not suited to his personality type or maybe he isn’t as high achieving as he needs to be for the schools you have in mind. What are his current CAT scores? This would give a good indication of where he sits. For instance in our prep, 125-130 was considered high achieving but the average was still 120 - it’s all relative.
Year 5 isn’t his exam year so you could move him but he only has 1 year to go before he sits his 11+. Part of that process will be a reference from your sons current school and I’m not sure if you moved him now, his new school would have time to give a rounded assessment of him - remember that future schools will ask for this from November onwards in year 6 (ie November this year).
Ultimately if you believe he’s capable then why don’t you just apply for the schools you want anyway? Your sons achool are recommending ones they think he would do well in, but you’re not obliged to listen. However, I would say that our headmaster openly tells us all at the start of year 6 that the hardest part of his job is helping parents see where their child will thrive and be happy as opposed to where the parents think the child should go and having just finished the 11+ process , I honestly think is the hardest part.

Thanks for your help. As I said I am not educated in the UK system and generally not having a clue about secondary schools. We are wishing the school could help to discuss schools that might be suitable to my ds (as I mentioned in my post and both of you also stated). But so far we have not got any help from the school whether any school is suitable for Ds other than a blank recommendation of a local comprehensive and a popular secondary indie which a lot of previous graduate went to. I don't know whether they are suitable for Ds or not suitable for Ds. Suitability is never mentioned in the conversation. There are also a lot of other schools, no mentioning, no discussion whatsoever. I tried to bring up the topic but did not receive any useful feedback. I dont want Ds to go to school he can not keep up nor get bored. I am just feeling helpless. DS CAT is 130+

Cat scores with an average of 130 are high so academically you will be fine. Is he sporty? Creative? Musical? Also would help to know where you are based or if you could tell us what schools you are looking at for him.

Are you in an area of the country where there is a lot of choice? Around here there aren’t that many private schools, so if boarding wasn’t an option, if 1-2 of the schools are doing badly, there may well only be one to recommend.

Likewise, of the state schools many of the choices might be ruled out.

You say he did not do well in the last assessment. What type of assessment was it and when did he take a CAT test? Did he score an average of 130? At my son's school they are doing their CATs when they are back in the classroom and only then they'll have future school meetings. When did you discuss things with the head? Was it part of their usual cycle?

In general if he really does have CAT scores over 130 then there is nothing stopping you applying for the more academic schools. Entrance is mostly predicated by the exams so whilst the school reference is useful it is not essential.

Does he have a tutor? You could get an independent assessment of his ability and a good local tutor should have a sense of whether he is at your target school standard or if he can work towards it.

I would add it is perfectly possible to be in the top set at a mixed ability Indie and not be a candidate for the most academically selective schools.

Either way you are a year from the 11+ so I would maybe spend that time focussing on improving areas where he needs development. The. 11+ process is brutal (I've just been through it in a highly disrupted year) and even very able kids are fighting for a small number of places.

Most importantly please be sure not to give your son false hope. At the end of the day chances are he will find the school best situated to him.

Sorry just to add I don't know anything about the maths challenge you refer to but it sounds like they are saying it is for younger kids

7+ means they'd be entering at the age of 6 or 7 and your son is probably 9 or 10. Year 3 is 7+ entry. It sounds like it is not aimed at his age group.

Finally it's usual for the form tutor to refer you to subject teachers for an overview of specific subject performance but for the head to advise on future schools. As frustrating as it is that he doesn't know your son personally, he should be experienced with outcomes for students with similar attainment. And as I say if you think they are underestimating him you can apply for any school you wish and have a year in which to help prepare him.

Thanks for you all. After8itsgrownuptime made some very good points. Not really good time to move him. I now understand why some parents move their kids to other school in year 4 and 5. Seems I was too laid-back and not communicate with the school early.

It is frustrating for staying in the school from the age 3, there isn't any teacher who know him that can help in choosing schools.

He is introvert and maybe a bit on autism spectrum (family genes), choosing a suitable school is more crucial than a regular kid. When I say suitable, I mean to suit his character, not purely academic.

It is unusual for prep schools not to have a member of Senior Management available to discuss future schools by now as part of 11/13+ or CE preparation. Or is it a school with a senior school linked, which assumes the majority will progress there and does not prep for alternatives?

I would try and arrange another meeting with the head and perhaps be a bit more to the point. You could even send them a list of questions in advance to ensure they are well prepared.

I am assuming that your current school only goes to 11. If, however, it goes to 13 then that could explain the non committal response - the head wants the children to stay on in years 7 and 8.

You also do not say what part of the country you are in. If there are fewer local options then they are going to be severely limited in what they can actually recommend. If there’s only one independent within a sensible commute then that’s all they will be recommending. Unless you would consider boarding.

Are you in a grammar school area? If yes, have you asked if your son is grammar material? That will give you a feel for his ability.

If you have certain schools in mind, are prepared to move house or consider boarding then make this very clear to them. Be to the point - Is my son suitable for , and if not then why do you think that? If you live in Manchester and are prepared to move to London for a school, for example, then the head needs to know this otherwise they will assume you want to stay local.

I also agree with a previous poster about sometimes a parents expectations might not be realistic. If he does have CAT scores that high then it doesn’t sound like the case, but the head only has the actual assessment results in their hands. You say he didn’t perform well. Unfortunately school admissions are based on entrance tests and reports from the current school. If he’s not performing well in tests then how likely is it the same trend would continue?

The job of a prep head is exactly this - making sure children go on to the right school for them. Maybe they believe that the schools suggested really are best fit. Ask them to explain exactly why they have recommended each school. Be prepared to hear things that might not meet your aspirations but will be honest. I have seen children fall in love with schools they never stand a chance at getting into, are tutored relentlessly to get in, are broken when they fail to get in, or scrape through and then have a miserable time at the bottom of the year group and need more tutoring to catch up.

Subject or form teachers really aren't always the best at advising on future schools. That isn't their role and they probably won't know those other schools as well as the head.

If you are looking for SEN suitability that's a very different question and you could perhaps talk to the SENCO at your current school to see if they have a better sense.

Several people have mentioned that if you say what area you are looking in you may get better advice. Do you have specific schools you are interested in? You also haven't explained what type of assessment he underperformed in.

@Cyqi I have to say that our prep school future schools person was also rubbish and just churned out the same old schools to nearly everyone.
You know your son. Go and see the schools but don’t be blinded by a name. Round where we live there are 3 or 4 schools that every parent hopes their child would excel in, but the reality is that they suit different personality types as well. My son who is very bright has SEN and sadly that will also put a lot of schools off in the highly competitive world of 11+. So be prepared to manage your own expectations as well as your sons. If he has an EHCP as well then make sure you ask lots of questions of the SENCO.
You will get a feel for a school when you visit and you’ll know if your DS will fit.
What was the exam he didn’t do well in? At our prep they only do CATS twice a year until
Year 6 when they do lots of 11+ mocks. So did he have a bad set of CATS?

@After8itsgrownuptime, I was planned to visit schools , but due to the covid situation, it is not possible since last year, maybe unlikely for this year too. Schools are all doing virtual tours which is no different from an ad.

Luckily he does not really to a level need SEN, so we have a wider choice. Only his last CAT is in odd with previous results. I would put it into his careless especially when the questions are easy. I did notice this problem lately and trying to correct him.

We are close to Windsor. We will consider schools between London and Reading. We are willing to move if needed as hubby need to reduce his commuting time to London too.
His school is coeducated up to 13 with no link to senior school

@After8itsgrownuptime I so feel that DS school is churning out the old schools to everyone. It appears to be common for co-educated schools with a lot posh parents. There is another indie I knew did exactly the same thing with my friend's daughter, suggesting local comprehensives or indie most kids got to. Her DD is very bright and she got offers across all super selective indies she applied with scholarship. Now very happy in the top set at St Paul. Her mom did moved her to a more middle class girl school in the mid of year 4 after discussing future schools with the head.

Of course DS is different, as he is not that bright to start with. Otherwise I won't be worrying right now as the closest school to us is Eton!

Oh, my spelling

Any suggestions on schools suitable for an introvert academic nerdy boy who have no interest in arts, music, or sports?

@Cyqi it’s the introvert bit that makes it tricky. My son is exactly the same as yours but sporty. We have just done 11+ and we focussed on schools that were more about pastoral care but that could push the academics as well. Would you mind sharing what the school has suggested for you?
Also would you want your son travelling in to London or away from London for his daily commute to school? The other option is to board him . Would he be open to that?

The school suggested are Windsor boys (local comprehensive) and St George in weybridge

He prefer not to board.

Part of your problem is that the school goes up to 13. If the majority of the boys in particular stay those extra two years then it is in the best interests of the school to try and encourage them all to stay. It happened at our prep school under the old head - the boys parents all had their "next schools" meeting with the head before the girls and it basically turned into an opportunity to convince them all to stay on. Meanwhile the girls parents had to wait several weeks for their appointment when they all were leaving at 11.

Like it or not, prep schools are often rated on where the children end up. Those that stay on to 13 are usually heading to old name boarding schools which, like it or not, impresses prospective parents.

It's hard when you cannot visit schools but come up with a shortlist of those that you are interested in and then ask the head to be very specific about suitability for each of those schools. However, you describe your son as introverted and not interested in sport, music or the arts. In his entrance interviews he will need to have something to talk about to sell himself. It's ok to not be into all these things but what ARE his passions? If the current school only has less promising CAT scores to go off and doesn't think he will perform well in interviews then you have the answer to your question.

I don't think. moving schools will help. You need to find the schools you are interested in and work out the areas he needs to work on to get there.

@Cyqi if his Cat scores have hit a lull then it’s worth getting him to practise boffa or GL tests online. As this will help familiarise himself with the format. St. George’s at our school is seen as a high achieving middling school - so not at Kingston grammar or Hampton level but a step below.