Why is quiet still being spouted as a negative?

[Icenii]

My entire school life I was told I was too quiet. I was forever being told to be something I was not and feeling like I was coming up short. Just had parents evening, and this was used to describe my child in a negative way. Surely people understand different personalities now?

Because children need to engage in their learning, not sit passively in the classroom. Unless they're articulating what they've learnt, the teacher cannot tell what their understanding is.

OP, I was always criticised for being too quiet as well. I hate to say it, but I do think life is easier for those who are chatty and extroverted.

I've always felt the opposite. The fact that I was quiet and well behaved whilst producing good written work was a good thing, I was regularly praised for it until very late on in my school career and then discovered it wasn't a good thing at all once I got to work

Yes, this was me too. I'm still quite quiet but can stand up for myself.

Did you challenge it? If not, why not? It would piss me right off too.

@W00t

Because children need to engage in their learning, not sit passively in the classroom. Unless they're articulating what they've learnt, the teacher cannot tell what their understanding is.

Being quiet is far from the same thing as passivity.

And certainly once the pupil can write, the teacher ought to be able to assess their understanding.

'Because it makes life easier for the teachers' is a crap reason for making quiet kids uncomfortable and/or doubt their abilities.

Being quiet is not always an issue, but being quiet to the point where a child is not actively participating in lessons or in group work, is unable to express their needs, is unable to engage fully with peers etc is a concern. I think often when a teacher describes a child as quiet, they are using it as shorthand for some of the sorts of things described above. They should be more explicit about their concerns though as euphemisms are supremely unhelpful.

I'm dreading this when my child gets to school age. I hope he doesn't take after me as I got this every single parents evening.

I was reasonably clever (upper average probably), sensible, teachers liked me, had friends etc. I just wasn't loud or chatty and I lacked confidence. No doubt made worse by the endless pointing out that a part of my personality (being quiet) was an awful thing to be ashamed of. Took me until about the age of 21 to realise i quite liked it about myself, I am a much better listener than I am talker. Should have been a therapist....

Well she isn't passive. Does her homework, applied for the little jobs they have, at the last parents evening we were told she reads very well in the group reading by her other teacher. She does extra work at home, so if they are learning about rain forest animals, she'll write up facts and show the teacher. But she is quiet by nature. Quiet does not mean passive. I certainly wasn't passive and accomplished many thinks, in a quiet way.

This has made me think! I was very quiet and painfully shy as a child. I'm now a teacher. At parents evenings, I often make a comment like "I know from his/her written work that s/he has good understanding/great ideas, but it would be good if a/he could share these during class discussion." I hope parents don't feel I'm being overly negative. I just think it's part of my job to support pupils in becoming more confident in expressing themselves.

She only joined the school last September so most of it has been Covid related, and they said she has settled in completely fine.

Worth a read!

www.amazon.co.uk/Quiet-Power-Introverts-World-Talking/dp/0141029196/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=quiet&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1606161329&sr=8-1

@Icenii I know how you feel.

My son was so quiet in yr 1, I was told to enrol him for Saturday drama classes. I didn’t. I think it’s easier for teachers to push the responsibility back to the parents rather than take time to know and understand the child. More to do with the sheer amount of work and class size - I don’t blame the teachers.
It has been a constant criticism from every teacher in every subject and every year - would like more engagement and interaction in class. And I have talked to him about it and how it is important how he comes across, and the need to participate and make a verbal contribution. Show willing I guess.

Fast forward to yr 9, he is confident, very composed and very mature. He goes to a very academic boys school. He just doesn’t see the point in putting his point of view across in the classroom when every other child has their hand in the air. And other children really like him because he isn’t over excited and in your face but happy to listen and join in with them and not dominate them. And other more attentive teachers have mentioned that to me. And I am sure when I get his report at the end of term it will be a regular feature. Again.

I knew some American mums in London who would turn any criticism around and say directly the teacher “ok and what are you going to do about it ? “

I hope your dd isn’t upset by the comments. I agree that it’s very disappointing that being an introvert isnt more accepted. Sounds like your dd does what she says she will and more. Rather than most people who talk a lot and actually do very little.

I just tell them that I am quiet and successful and not everyone is an extrovert. I have been told many times that dc could “move discussion along” which would help the class. I find it extremely irritating. My children are not there for that. They are in school to be educated not support poor teaching.

My son was always described as this too, he is thirteen now and finding his voice.

I was like it too, painfully so, and I am now very confident!

I would recommend the book 'Quiet' ( see above reference).

I worried about my son at primary.
He was always described as quiet and hated the lime light. Not helped bu a class full of experts 😁

Secondary school has enabled him to shine.

My point is do not worry!

@arnietheaardvark - Yes, 'Quiet', by Susan Cain is a real game changer. She has a FB page which is worth a look too.

Also, posters on this thread may be interested in an archived Radio 4 programme, Off the Page Anything but Shy at
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b008h4rc

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b008h4rc

I'll get that book thank you. Thinking about it, I don't feel worried. We do a martial arts class together, and she sticks her hand up to answer the questions and goes up to the front when asked to demonstrate. She is only 8 so I've not spoken to her about it. I just recall the constant criticism when I was at school and don't want it to be the same for her. I'm sure it made me worse, not louder.

She sounds great. Extroverts and extraverted behaviour is well overrated everywhere and through adulthood too.

Sometimes teachers are just sharing what they observe about your child, given their experience of seeing lots of children in a learning environment. I let parents know if a child is always contributing verbally or doing so more rarely - it's not a criticism. I'm not looking to 'fix' it. I will offer quiet children opportunities to build up their confidence in speaking in class, because learning to share your knowledge and express your thoughts verbally will help in life. But I am not trying to turn introverts into extroverts.

Adding to the Susan Cain book recommendation, I'd also recommend A Quiet Education (challenging the extrovert ideal in our schools) by Jamie Thom.

If you're feeling brave you could recommend your child's teacher reads it too!

Also, it occurs to me that as a society we are now so bombarded with extrovert tropes because there is a strong commercial element to it: think marketing for pubs, clubs, Christmas, in fact things that often require a lot of social mixing.
Think how badly the economy has been affected by the closure of many of these things over recent months and how well so many introverted people have reported coping as a result of the lockdown. And yet we are all supposed to want to return to 'normal'.

mine was always accused of not putting herself forward enough to answer or participate, but the reality at home is she is happy to full on debate/argue with my DH regarding politics or any current news matter. She hates being infront of groups especially if there are people she doesn't like in the group ie bitchy girls in school etc so she keeps her head down

My ds (15) is quiet and I’ve always sensed his teachers see it as a positive - maybe because he’s a boy?

It's fascinating because I was never quiet at school and felt that that was always presented as a bad thing as well - I pushed to contribute too much, was too chatty and distracting. I was too opinionated and loud.

Ultimately I was like that because I was bored and needed more complex and interesting work to do, but I wouldn't take the comments to heart, as there will always be things for kids to work on, be it being quieter or louder.

I was described as this throughout my childhood and still now in my career. I can’t bare to read through my school reports as it just reads “quiet, participate more etc etc” for everything.

Now in my career, it still holds me back massively but still have a successful career.

My little boy has already had similar comments and he’s only in nursery. I really hope he shines in primary school but I think the key is to ensure they have lots of confidence in themselves no matter what their nature is.

Because and important part of learning and later work is communicating, exploring and defending your ideas verbally. I have a colleague who I'm sure got these comments as a child (so did I but I grew out of it) who just doesnt contribute to group discussions unless pretty much forced to. You just find out later that he's not happy with the outcome.