Secondary school applications - doesn't make sense?

[WishIWasSomewhereElse]

Applying for a secondary place. Our county is 100% selective, so all children sit the 11+, unless their parents withdraw them (and only would happen in my town if their child has learning difficulties, as the secondaries are all pretty dire tbh).

Usually you would apply after the results of the 11+ are known, but this year the exam will be sat after the application deadline.

We've been advised to put our grammar choices first (as otherwise even if they passed there would be a high chance of getting their secondary instead), then the grammars would be discounted if they fail, and the secondary becomes first choice.

However, the secondary we want to put first (after grammar school, but first choice if they fail), the head has said you must put it first or you won't get a place. The school is a religious one, and we've sent the supplemental form direct to the school, but the admissions is done by the county, but if you haven't sent the SIF to the school, you won't be considered. So I really have no idea of how this works, and someone posted this in a town group, as others are also confused.

The council site states that schools don't get told who puts them first (and I will include a link to the council's page that states this, as it also seems to be a bit ambiguous). So any help would be great. Should we put the grammar first as we've been informed?

www.buckscc.gov.uk/services/education/school-admissions/moving-up-to-secondary-school/getting-the-order-of-your-preferences-right/

Out the school you want first. The HT is talking rubbish, schools do not know who puts them where. You will get the grammar if your DC passes, if not, you will get the next-first-choice secondary modern.

Threads on this in secondary education - one quite recently where lots of ppl explain it well

If you want the grammar then put it first. It won’t affect your chances of getting your second choice.

Each choice is looked at individually in order of preference to see if you qualify or not.

Sorry Put not Out!

Thank you both so much . The head has quite a few of us worried, but I'd read it as you said, but others being confused made me doubt myself x

I will look on the secondary education boards, I've been putting it off as want to keep DC a baby still.

"the secondary we want to put first (after grammar school, but first choice if they fail), the head has said you must put it first or you won't get a place."

They are lying - to bump up their numbers - or misinformed. Put it in order of your preference. You are allocated places on eligibility and it is no longer legal for your order of preference to be an allocation criteria.

The other people responding are correct. The school just sees an application from you. They don't see how you've ranked them. Definitely submit the SIF to them and to any other schools that require it, even if they're your last choice.

Several heads seem to say this but I am not sure why or how it benefits them - but it seems to be untrue anyway, so follow the written processes.v

The head at the local school still says this to parents. I tried to explain it to him once and he still says it to parents who obviously believe him and repeat the information to other parents. I genuinely don't know if he believes it or he's being underhand.

The head is wrong.
Look at the priorities for the schools. If will be something like kids in care/ECHP/siblings/distance from school. With a grammar mark requirement for the grammars. Nowhere will it say priority will be given to a child who ranked the school further up the preference list. The only time the preference order comes into play is if you would be on 2 school lists. Then you get the school you put highest. The school donf reject you because you didnt put them first.

I just had this conversation with a friend as her first choice was notoriously popular. Her second choice head said you must put it as first choice or you won't get in. We both agreed this was utter bullshit and not how the system works.

Thank you all. It's really reassured me. Now it's just a case of hoping to get one of our preferences (got allocated a school that wasn't one of our 6, or on our list at all for primary).

That is bad re the Head.

I don’t know why they can say something that’s not correct.

But yes put grammar first.

Well the head is correct to say if you really want the school you should put it first.

If you only want it if you can't/don't get into other schools then you put it wherever it sits in your preference order.

You’re lucky really re 11 plus - in Liverpool - Re our granddaughter it looks as though she would need an Educational Healthcare Plan to get in to her parents preferred schools 😡

Op this was the thread I was thinking of secondary admissions [[https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/4053836-Anyone-understand-secondary-admissions]]

Ffs www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/4053836-Anyone-understand-secondary-admissions

The head of school A says something like 'If you want to come to this school you really must put it first.' This is technically correct because if you put school B first and you qualify for school B then you will be given school B rather than school A. It is though confusing. In other times it might not be as confusing as if your dc passes the faith school wouldn't be on your radar at all.

The head should say list in order of preference

Saying put it first if you want to get in is up for misinterpretation

My son has just taken his 11+ too and we're about to fill in the application. I was under the impression that this year because we don't know how high a pass mark they'll get it or even if they'll pass that schools won't be penalising applications where they're not put down as first choice.

Oh that is to be clear you wouldn't be penalised if you didn't qualify for your first choices eg School A not a high enough pass mark so School B then top of list, but if they failed altogether then School C (if a non-grammar) would become top of list.

@AlwaysLatte that's what we've been told. Hope your son gets the school he wants, we take it first week of November (assuming Boris doesn't announce a circuit breaker, then I don't what will happen).

@eveoha that's pretty much the case here too. Our town has a pretty low pass rate (especially from our primary), as the places tend to get taken from better schools/prep schools/parents who can afford tuition. Hope your granddaughter gets the school she wants.

This is out of date info now but when I went to school in Bucks my parents put the grammar schools first. so my choices were grammar school A, grammar school B, secondary school A, secondary school B. I ended up at secondary school b which was the catchment school.

Schools in England do not see the order of preference you put them in!
We are sent a list of all applicants and rank them according to the admissions criteria. Lots of those ranked in the top 150 (our number of places) don't ever come here because they wanted other schools more. We do find out later how many first choice applicants there were...but that's after places have been allocated.

I have no idea why HTs do that!

@AlwaysLatte I may have misunderstood what you mean, but just to clarify it is the case every year that you are not penalised for not putting a school as first choice- this isn't something that has been brought in this year due to the later 11+ in some areas. Every LEA in England has to use an equal preference system, so no one gets priority for putting a school first or higher up their list. The only time the order matters is if more than one school on your list is able to offer you a place, in which case the LEA will offer you the school that is highest in your preference list, as everyone can only receive one offer.

The golden rule is to always list schools in your genuine order of preference, including at least one school that you can be fairly certain of gaining a place at