Unhappy about primary schools re opening

[Bitterglitter]

Is anyone else unhappy about primary schools being re opened as part of the lockdown easing measures?

I keep thinking about the kids who have underlying health conditions that aren't yet diagnosed.

My DS1 (5) was diagnosed with a benign heart murmur in feb this year. It was only picked up because he has a lot of follow up Paediatric appointments because he was premature. I don't even know if it's an issue as far as covid19 goes. But what about all the kids out there with undiagnosed asthma, diabetes etc?

Primary age kids can't and won't maintain social distance. And they will act as super spreaders too. Doesn't matter how well their parents maintain distance if all these kids are mixing it up in schools.

It just seems crazy when so many parents can continue working from home. Am I being hysterical?

I don't know of I have more money than you probably not bit that's not the point. You have bills to pay, yeah, but apparently you can afford to not send their kids to school. People who do, sheeple as you call them, who have real jobs that they will lose if they don't show up due to lack of childcare aren't fucking experimenting they're surviving. Would you rather people just didn't feed their kids or pay their rent?

No one will be fined because their child or parent is in the vulnerable category and should not risk catching covid 19.
And lie. Say they are ill.

@wasgoingmadinthecountry Obviously your choice, but I would put my own family first.

Looking at the data (from the EDEC which covers Europe) the main things that make you vulnerable are
Age
Gender (men are hit much worse particularly in the younger age range
Cardiac disorder
COPD
Diabetes
Chronic neuromuscular disorders
Cancer
Hypertension
Immune compromised

Those I suspect are after the current shielding process going to be the ones seen as vulnerable

I think they will use the words rely on the science as they change things!

Diabetes and hypertension currently does not get you in the shielded group. Very common in older people, especially hypertension.

Yes @cantory and that is the problem with all of this isnt it - a lot of over 70s (men in particular) have cardio issues so if you have a virus that is hitting elderly men particularly hard it is going to be a real risk

Ultimately I dont think much is going to put you in a shielded group (particularly as the over 70s are arguing it now) so I think it is going to become a personal risk assessed choice.

I just hope that they disseminate the data to allow people to make the right choice for them.

Quartz2208

They are testing the vaccine at the moment at Oxford and will know by June/July if successful.

Because it is a tweaked vaccine a lot of the work was done already so they have already set up a manufacturing programme if successful“

This is really hopeful isn’t it? The Chairman of AstraZeneca announced a couple of days ago that they believed they would have the first batches ready by October. The share price immediately rose 3.5%.
They must be supremely confident, as the BBC business editor said, no Chairman would screw with the share price unless they were very sure.

Let’s all hope so.

Yes it is incredibly positive. Which is why if I am honest I think anyone who has the choice not to send kids back to school before Xmas is a bit reckless. It is in reality such a short space of time before we will potentially have a vaccine.
They have said by Xmas they will have made millions of doses.
Which is why we as a family are just going to hang on until it really is safe. I am worried about finances. But I have been unemployed before and although it was shit, we survived it and got through it to better times. That is all we need to do at the moment.

would you just stop with the reckless - assessing risk and deciding based on data and circumstances is about as far away from reckless as you can get.

You have made your choice and it is one I can support but you really do need to start realising not everyone will make your choice and that from June onwards that could be as valid and as sensible as yours based on peoples individual circumstances and assessment of risk.

I completely support the idea that school needs to be optional until September at least. You need to recognise that other people read and understand risk differently. For example I am 50/50 that my family has had it already. An antibody test for me would be a complete gamechanger.

@quartz agree re antibody tests

That is all we need to do at the moment

Really it’s terribly arrogant to decide your way is the only way and call others reckless. We are all capable of making balanced decisions.

If you wish to go unemployed and de reg your kids and home school then crack on. But do try to accept others will make different decisions.

Half the population have hypertension; it is not a high clinical risk factor and shielding does not apply, that applies to diabetes too. I don’t know where you are getting this information from.

@Mumto2two this has diabetes

www.gov.uk/government/publications/full-guidance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others/full-guidance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others

And I was saying about the breakdown of underlying conditions from here

www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/covid-19-rapid-risk-assessment-coronavirus-disease-2019-ninth-update-23-april-2020.pdf

Hypertension and diabetes are underlying conditions that seem common in people who have died. You know when we keep getting told that nearly all of those who died have underlying conditions? This is what they mean.

@Bluntness100 Stop catastrophising. No one needs to deregister their kids for a start. I am ringing in sick for mine. They are not going back until I have had a chance to see if infections and deaths rise. After 3-4 weeks it will be obvious if it has had a negative impact. I can string out ringing in sick to work if need to for that long as well. But may just try and book holiday.

@Quartz2208 Yes I know the UK shielding guidelines are narrow. Because the initial vulnerable list had too many people on it.
So being pregnant with asthma won't get you in the shielding list. You just have to take your chances. But if you sadly die everyone will be told it was sad, but you had underlying health conditions.

I am ringing in sick for mine.

So, you're lying. Just tell the truth. No one is going to believe your children are sick for 3-4 weeks.

look@cantory you need to do what is right for your family and I will do what I think is right for mine (given we may have already had it) but stop judging those who make different decisions.

because people read data in different ways - its clear how you have interpreted my points and data in a different way to me. And that is fine but remember it means for different decisions

mumto2two - you have no way of knowing if hypertension is a high clinical risk factor. The vulnerability list is the flu jab list, the reason for this I suspect is that it was a list of conditions that was already collated rather than particularly tailored towards CV19 which we know isn't the same as flu. My understanding is that hypertension is the most common comorbidity found in deaths from CV19. Of course with the huge numbers of people who have hypertension it is not in the govts interest to have them all on the vulnerable list. There is far more evidence that hypertension is a risk factor than pregnancy for example.

Thank you @Quartz2208
The shielding group only applies to the ‘extremely vulnerable’ category, which doesn’t include diabetes, hypertension etc. Our daughter is in the shielding category, but many children we know through our support group etc. have not been included for various reasons. Patients’ respective risk is decided by their care team, and it seems it has certainly been more than just ticking a box. Confusing I agree, but otherwise the shield list would be endless.

Re the ‘flu list’, that has certainly not been the deciding factor. People over seventy, young school age children, and people with mild asthma; are all in the flu jab list. They are not classed as extremely vulnerable.

The shielding group isn't the issue - for them it's clear, they should be at home. It's the vulnerable group that are potentially going to be asked to go into schools, parents asked to send vulnerable children in. The shielding group is basically the golden ticket in terms of clarity and protection (just to be clear i am not suggesting that being in the shielding group is a privileged or favourable position, just that it is certainly very clear in terms of what you should or shouldn't do)

Bluntness100 Stop catastrophising. No one needs to deregister their kids for a start. I am ringing in sick for mine. They are not going back until I have had a chance to see if infections and deaths rise. After 3-4 weeks it will be obvious if it has had a negative impact. I can string out ringing in sick to work if need to for that long as well. But may just try and book holiday.

You're accusing Bluntness of catastrophising? Wow - pot, kettle. How do you know that if people lie to their schools for weeks on end, they won't eventually be required to relinquish their school place? Not to mention your plan to lie to your bosses for an indeterminate length of time whilst presumably still drawing a salary.

Mum2two - those are exactly the people on the vulnerable list excepting the school children. Are you conflating shielding and vulnerable?

@lemonsandlimes123 I agree yes, hypertension has been the most common co-morbidity, but it has usually been in conjunction with other co-morbidities. All this really does, is highlights the extent of hypertension and general obesity related problems in this country. Being fit and healthy..simply puts you at better advantage, should you ever succumb. It’s not a guarantee of course, but it gives you a better chance of a quick recovery.