Letting go of private school reception place amid fear of recession when we are not affected yet

[anyoneconsidering]

DS due to start reception at a private school. Deposit and the first term's fee paid.

I do wonder if we should let go of that place and start him in a state school instead, amid the fear of recession looming and the potential uncertainty of our financial situation in the future.

Our jobs are not affected currently. Hence DH thinks that this change of plan is unnecessary especially as we've made financial commitment to the school already.

But I worry what recession (and maybe world wide depression) might bring to us that we can't predict right now.

Am I the only one considering this? Anyone in similar situation - what are your thoughts?

@sophieinthesky

Totally agree in can be different everywhere. Just in my experience, within the 6 state schools I've worked in (both village and inner London so a right mix) none of them have ever requested children stand behind chairs.

@BubblesBuddy yes agree.

I know four private schools locally relatively well (own kids plus friends’ kids) and the profile of kids is actually quite different across all 4:

Sporty / not very sporty
Highly academic v accepting many dc with sn

Etc etc

You have time on your hands to make a decision.

Wait till you get your state offer and accept it.

Wait and see how this coronavirus epidemic pans out. It is a novel situation and who knows where we will be in 4 months time?!

Make a decision on the state vs private in mid August based on the situation then. Yes it's not fair on other people who cannot get a place at that state school now, but who knows how this epidemic will pan out?!

Again, it really depends on your child and your schools. Around ours, state schools are dire (ofsted outstanding or good, but with results that are way below average) - and that’s not hearsay but experience ( after 6 weeks a teacher didn’t even know my son was in her class - not that she did confuse him with somebody else, she genuinely though my son had never been in her class - too busy to change after some trouble makers)
I only know of very few children who made it from state into private secondaries (and the state secondaries are mostly disastrous, we don’t have Grammar schools). Its either sending kids private, or state + a lot of tutoring right from receptiom (and live with the behavioral issues in school).
If your local schools are decent ( and your local secondaries as well!), Its more about extra curricular offers.

No real progress on our thinking yet as DH is hopelessly optimistic about our and the world's future after Coronavirus.. I think after the state school offer day I can sit down with him with more tangible points to discuss.

I wanted to say thank you all for the thoughtful advice in the meantime.

I don't see much point in private for very small children. It's going to a lot of play based activity wherever you go. Save your money for juniors and secondary maybe.

I think the bigger issue that DH should focus on is: if there is an issue with your income there is a very good chance you won’t get your local state school because it will be full. So what then? A school you probably don’t like and not a convenient one. It’s highly likely private schools will be available but not state ones. I’m glad he’s optimistic but I’d leave that for Y3 onwards and save in the meantime.

Op, where in the country are you?
There's a private school near me which parents then take their children out of to send to the state school that's outstanding but not been ofstedded in 10 years. It very much depends on the school.
If you get a state school place I'd take it as by the sounds of it you won't get a second chance. If you're unhappy with your choice you can change to the private school, but the other way round will be much harder due to waiting lists.

We are in N.London.

Secondary state schools are not good. No grammar here. But many private secondaries.

So longer term, we would want our DS to sit 11+ (maybe 7+ maybe not as he is a summer born). As we are both very busy (when there is no lockdown!), we wanted school's help in prepping for 11+.

DH says our jobs will be very secure and if I lose a job he will take on a second job (how?!). This kind of optimism is what i was attracted to him in the past but is not really practical now!

We’re in the same situation OP. We put in a state application in the autumn when DH’s company was being taken over as his job was potentially at risk. That hasn’t happened so we were confident our DC would be going to the private school and we would turn down the state place after offer day. Now we are likely to hold onto the state place for a while to see what happens with our jobs and the wider financial impact of this episode. We’re not in a very competitive area for schools and our first choice school isn’t likely to be oversubscribed so we won’t be denying someone else that place.

My 2pence.

If you have a state school, around the corner from home, that you liked the feel of, grab a place if offered.

It's much easier to move TO private than FROM.

I think there's very little (If any) advantage in Reception/Y1/2 & you're better off saving the money for future opportunities (or paying down the mortgage to give you more wiggle room later)

If a lot of people are pulling out, YR mightbend up being super tiny & I don't think that's helpful either.

Plus, as you say, the schools financial stability etc

A local school your child can walk to is a good thing 😊

OP there are bad preps and good states, but having had an overpriced bad prep experience and now a very very good prep where we do receive financial support, I would caution against letting go of your place. It depends how selective your school is - are you in London? I don't give a stuff about status. The care and attention and facilities my kids have access to us wonderful. I'm lucky I can pay but I know even great state schools would struggle to offer anywhere near the same. If you only have one child I would hold on. You have plenty of time to change if you need to. Good luck.

Moominmammcat

Not to sound harsh but you don't know what you are talking about.

A lot of gifted students run into significant issues at school. Bad behaviour due to boredom and massive underperformance being one of the ones I'm familiar with in my own family. The other, which occurred in my husband's family is the conscientious child who flies very high essentially coasting through the work that is conceptually very easy for them. Then when the conceptual difficultly increases in secondary (or even university depending on the individual) they completely flame out. They've never tackled real challenge and don't develop appropriate resilience or even basic study skills as they've always been able to just absorb information without any work and ace things.

Neither of these quite common outcomes are good for a persons development and I think are very important things to consider when looking at education options for the specific needs of ones children if applicable. I'm from the US where most states specifically publicly funded gifted programmes for the age of 8 specifically for these well studied reasons.

And yes, my DD is that bright... I find rude and condescending posts like yours very irritating if that wasn't obvious in my response!

Also, Moominmammcat you don't know what I prioritise regarding my child's development. This is a thread on schools in the education board so that's what I'm discussing.

I think its extremely rude to make statements suggesting I don't know what to prioritise in my child's development for no reason other than to be aggressive and with no basis for doing so that whatever your biases and prejudices are regarding the topic.

I would go state now and save the fees so I'm a few years you know you have the fees for secondary school, no matter what you have to deal with financially.

My friend had both her DSs go to Cambridge for maths from state. All the way through state. Brilliant DC can thrive in a state school as long as their talent is recognised and treated appropriately. Many DC don’t always stay light years ahead. I’ve also known other DC who were reading books with paragraphs well before starting school and the best state schools can cater for them. No extraordinarily bright child I have known in state schools has been failed by our local ones. However of course they vary and some schools simply would never see a bright child of this type. Some private schools won’t either!

We had our sons' name down at a prep school from age 2, but decided in the end to send him to our local 'good' state school.

Planning ahead, we have a grammar school within a mile of our house, the single sex comprehensive is dire. For secondary we would ideally like him to go to the local grammar, otherwise we are likely to pay privately for secondary. There is a secondary academy out of area, which could be an option too.

I took some advice from a few people who suggested we were best 'saving our money for secondary' rather than pay privately the whole way through. I think someone else has suggested this above.

Small class sizes are appealing, but there are risks around prep schools not having to use qualified teachers and teaching methods can be out of date. Academic study can often be overly focused on prepping for entrance exams, and that would restrict his broader learning.

My son is in year 1 now and he's academically thriving in the state system. School is challenging him and we do extra bits and pieces with him at home e.g. nurturing his love of maths, teaching him coding and encouraging him to read as much as possible. We already get plenty of homework, and I don't think I'd want even more that would have come from a prep environment.

Re: 11 +, we will plan to generally support him at home and he'll have a paid tutor in year 4/5 if at that point we still feel its the right option for him. I've now settled on the view, that if he has a state education plus a decent batch of private tutoring and doesn't pass the 11+, grammar education isn't right for him.

I know the system/options are different in each area, so it is worth thinking a little more about your longer term schooling options. Does he 'need' to go to a prep school to get into the 11+ system in your area, or can you support it in other ways?

I really wouldn't want to pull my child out of private and into state at a later point. You're most likely to have a restricted choice in terms of state options in that scenario, so you may be much better to take your state place now. Given the Covid circumstances, I would want to be rock solid with my finances. We have two professional salaries, but I don't think I'd want to have to commit to 7 years of prep school in this climate. I'd also be concerned about the financial viability of the school if it's small and others are starting to pull out.

Did anyone get a school offer today that has made their mind up for them? We're in the same position as you OP and previous posters.

It's completely meaningless to say "XYZ went to Cambridge/Oxford from a state school" of course kids can be successful in state schools however some state schools are awful (as are some privates actually) and some kids benefit more from smaller class sizes and personal attention etc than others. For some a small prep school might be stifling where as others would be completely lost in a class of 30.

Most kids will be fine in a good state though and a lot of learning in the early years happens at home (even with a small class size they can only read about 10 minutes a day with each child for example) so if in doubt a good state is available (and by good I obviously mean well suited to your child not just with good results) then I'd probably go for it unless you have particular concerns about your child.

If your in a confident financial position and you have a prep that offers a lot of extras (in terms of drama, personal attention, music, sport) that would benefit your child then yes it is worth it but not if you risk financial strain and a possible move to a sub standard state.

Well it’s equally as meaningless to say most kids will be fine in a state school. You have no idea if this generalisation is true because the DC didn’t go anywhere else to see if they could have had a better experience.

I was merely suggesting that not all gifted DC have to go private to have their education tailor made or expanded upon. Otherwise top universities would be full of privately educated dc and they are not.

@BubblesBuddy my point was that talking about one off examples is meaningless. There are children who grew up in all kinds of terrible situations who ended up doing well. The important thing is what most kids will end up doing - and Oxbrdige is actually disproportionately filled with private school kids (although you couldn't attribute all of that to a superior education).

Bubbles I do know of people who were failed by state schools so I have a different view. There are some gifted kids who will thrive anywhere but there are a good number who don't. Under performance is quite common for a number of reasons.

I agree many private schools aren't good at differentiation either. Its not a private vs state thing, its down to the schools you have to choose from.

Since school budgets were cut, its harder for many state schools to differentiate and stretch pupils who sit above the top 10% (so the top 25 and above for instance). This was told to me by a friend who is a governor in charge of her ofsted outstanding school's gifted and SenCo provision. This school would likely be the school I'd be sending my DD too if we use the state system so I'm not thinking about my choices in the abstract.

Also, as an aside, you don't need to be gifted to go to Oxford or Cambridge. You do need to be quite bright and very hard working, which is also more than enough to be successful in most professions too. I say this as someone who went to Oxford by the way so I'm not slagging off the university but entry isn't a marker of giftedness.

that should have said top 2% not 25!

@LondonGirl83 it depends what you mean by gifted - to get in to Oxbridge you definitely don't have to be a genius but you do have to be hard working and at least within the top 2-5% ability wise in your chosen subject - which is usually enough to be classed as gifted. Some state schools near me have never sent anyone to Oxbridge and would be very unlikely to at least in the subject I teach as they don't offer further maths which is almost essential and just don't offer enough extension material so the student just wouldn't be used to the kind of thinking they'd need for the entrance exams and interviews. I'm sure an exceptionally gifted and motivated student could overcome all those obsticles but they'd be working 10 times harder and showing much more initiative than a just very bright hard working kid at a good indie who would have the benefit of tailored help for the MAT/STEP papers.

Obviously this is a bit off topic when discussing prep schools where you probably don't have a good idea of your child's ability yet and probably less interested in academics than you would be at sixth form.

Yes, its off topic so I apologise to the OP!

Don't get me wrong-- I know people who I'd consider gifted (top 2% or above) who went to Oxford but its definitely not a pre-requisite for entry. Grades achieved aren't solely function of intellect. Work ethic, opportunities, grooming, interview prep etc play a substantial role.

12.9% of students get 3 As or better at A-levels. For many courses at Oxford AAA is good enough for entry.

www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/entrance-requirements/level-offers