Letting go of private school reception place amid fear of recession when we are not affected yet

[anyoneconsidering]

DS due to start reception at a private school. Deposit and the first term's fee paid.

I do wonder if we should let go of that place and start him in a state school instead, amid the fear of recession looming and the potential uncertainty of our financial situation in the future.

Our jobs are not affected currently. Hence DH thinks that this change of plan is unnecessary especially as we've made financial commitment to the school already.

But I worry what recession (and maybe world wide depression) might bring to us that we can't predict right now.

Am I the only one considering this? Anyone in similar situation - what are your thoughts?

Defective!!! Yes it is! But I meant effective

As a teacher who has taught in both state and private, and as an individual who went to a private school until I was 16, and then went to state, let me just clear a few things up for you.

Private schools do not deliver a higher standard of teaching.

In the main, the best teachers teach in the state sector.

There are a lot of unqualified teachers teaching in the private sector.

Going private just buys a better class of bully.

Paying for private for primary is a complete waste of money.

If you're going to use a private school, save up now for when your child is 11 and send them 11-16.

All you're doing in primary, is paying for 'nicer' Boden wearing children to mingle with your child (generally) . Not nicer in terms of their personalities though - there can be some right little shits in private! Although generally unless their parents are loaded and are funding the school somewhat, at least they will be told to leave the school (unlike in state where you're stuck with them)

Honestly with hindsight I wouldn’t have paid for ds to go to prep school. I wish eh saved that money for senior school instead. Don’t get me wrong he’s been very happy there - which is very important. But has it been great value for money? Hmmm I’m not convinced. Senior school for us has to be private as the local state ones are hopelessly overcrowded and over subscribed.

@Grobagsforever

Not sure why you feel the need to be so rude.

In my opinion, the politeness of standing behind a chair is a good and respectful thing.

Just because you don't feel private school is worth the money and offers no more, doesn't mean everyone has to agree with you.

You just come across as downright nasty.

One thing if you do decide to stay in private education, starting talking about a discount now, you know they are going to have to offering discounts and doing anything to maintain numbers with some income coming in, fully subsidising other people when you are not comfortable in paying is pretty bad for you.

There is of course little upside in private education in early years anyway - little is shown even before controlling for the huge privilege the kids have at entry - and there's a big risk given the current environment.

Trouble is any discount won’t be long term and they have complete control over fees

I think that if you have a good State alternative there is no need for Private at Primary level - I say this as someone with a Y10 in Private and a Y6 going Private-in September.
Use the Primary years to put aside money for Secondary if necessary (our Secondary options are not good here unfortunately but they are at Primary)

Do not assume you will ever get a place at the good state school if you want it a few years down the line. This crisis will mean more cautious parents and they will fill up the state schools. Many were full anyway before any financial crisis.

It would somewhat depend on the type of school as well. From Y3, decent preps have specialist teaching, specialist facilities and offer an education with all the bells and whistles you could possibly want. If you are looking at a nice little private primary without the science facilities and art/ music rooms and a pool and playing fields and indoor sports hall etc, then what are you paying for because the bells snd whistles aren’t there. Also it’s really key to look at destinations. Where do the DC go afterwards? Do they transfer at 11 or 13? I think all this makes a difference to state or private.

For what it’s worth, the state primaries DD1 attended were hot on good behaviour right from day 1. But, they had first class teachers and 33 in a class back then! Small classes are not necessary for DC.

I agree with a lot of what Bubble says.

Getting a place at your outstanding primary option will be more difficult after reception. Depending on pressure on places, switching after reception might require you to take wherever has space which will typically be a school parents don't want.

KS1 for private if you have a good state school for most people is a waste of money as specialist teachers and access to facilities doesn't really start until KS2 (year 3) in most schools. I think your child needs to have a really specific need that your local state option can't cater for or some other compelling reason at that age.

We are considering private reception for our DD for two reasons despite having a genuinely outstanding state primary on our doorstep.

1. Funding and approach for the most able / gifted students

We have a friend who is a governor in charge of gifted and SENCO at the school. She's told us because of gov't budget cuts, the school doesn't have the resources (despite being relatively well funded) to stretch really gifted students (kids who are top 10% nationally are well catered for but differentiation for the top 1% doesn't exist). My daughter is potentially pretty advanced (has been able to read children's books since just before turning 3 etc) and our local private schools are top nationally ranked academic through schools and are well known for offering individualised learning plans with acceleration / differentiation for gifted pupils even at primary level.

1. Potentially avoiding the stress of the 7+

Because our local private schools are some of the top academic schools in the country they are competitive to get into and the process for the 7+ is much more stressful for kids than entry at 4+ which is essentially just a play date.

Even with that said I'm not 100% convinced KS1 is worth in a top private school is worth 17k-20k!

@BubblesBuddy

Thank you for your advice.

On your question regarding ofsted, the state school achieved outstanding about 10 years ago! Then there was an interim assessment in 2012 of which the report states that the performance had sustained and would not inspect the school unless there's a concern raised.

Does this raise any alarm bell?

The SAT(?) achievement and the local reputation is very good though.. I wonder why this school had no inspection for so long!

@anyoneconsidering that is quite common in my experience to be honest. I’m afraid the reality is many state schools have as no full inspection for a while. Anyway, even if the inspection was last year, it half the staff have left after a new head came in a school can change very fast.

I have found gut instinct when you visit is pretty powerful. I appreciate that doesn’t help right now, but if you’ve been round already what was your view?

Well it’s a long time ago! Lots of schools are not maintaining Outstanding. However, Good is perfectly Good. Except you don’t know if they are! However, one way of checking what their current position might be is to look them up on the government web site: Find and Compare schools uk. You can then see their data and whether their DC are achieving above or below average and there is lots of other data too. If they are well above average then you shouldn’t have too much to worry about. If all categories are Red, then it’s not so great. However if this has been the case for a number of years, they would probably have had inspection.

The problem with inspections done 8-10 years ago is that there could be a new head by now. Lots of the staff could have changed. However if the standards have remained high and parents are supporting the school and are enthusiastic about it, then it’s probably fine!

It’s only Outstanding schools where inspections haven’t been done! Others are visited about every 4/5 years. Or even more often if they are giving cause for concern.

How important to you are non-academic pursuits and how good is your prep school at them? I really don't think that teaching English and maths is any better at private than at an outstanding state - if anything state might well be better! But the standard of drama, sports and music especially at some preps at least is amazing. For my DCs, music is very important and at their schools they are surrounded by amazing musicians, have opportunity to play in several orchestras and ensembles and sing in world class choirs. Grade 7/8 in 2 instruments plus voice or even already a diploma by age 13 in one study is pretty standard (as in 2 to 4 pupils per class). Obviously all the music lessons come extra on top of the fees, plus examination costs. So in theory it could all be done outside of school, and the peripatetic teachers would happily come into state schools, too, but I think it needs a bit of a critical mass for most DC to be inspired and to put in the work. Without constantly seeing other DC practicing and performing in school I doubt my dd would have begged to start practicing the violin at 4.

@BubblesBuddy That's the point though your DC only did piano, brownies and swimming after school, where as at lots of prep schools she would have done all of this plus a variety of sports lots of times a week - including competitively against other schools. There would have been lots of opportunities to perform in music and drama (smaller class sizes = bigger roles), the chance to be in choirs and learn a second instrument. Now not all preps even offer these opportunities and for lots of kids some of these opportunities are somewhat wasted (my eldest does get a lot out of drama because it's not something he'd choose to do in his spare time and he's improved in confidence by being on stage but the only sport he cares about is a niche sport he does out of school anyway and he plays an instrument but isn't that into music so I don't think he'd be missing out on much if they weren't there) but for other kids they definitely add to school life.

DD2 went to a top flight boarding prep so I really do know the difference. However DD1 liked her state school (I was less keen on the junior school but her state infant school was amazing) and she wanted the activities outside school and didn’t want to go to the prep. She had lots of performance opportunities with the county music orchestras and choir including at the schools prom. We had one of the best music services in the county. It was amazing and better than the prep school! Gifted musicians everywhere at the county ensembles!

Sport: no, she wouldn’t have been in any team. DD2 was fairly sporty and she wasn’t in a team either. We are not sporty. Both DDs had drama opportunities and the state school gave DD1 decent roles!

DD2 benefitted from teaching of separate subjects, far better art (her thing) and made friends. DD1 was not disadvantaged at state school and scored 1 mark off max in our 12 plus without tutoring. So state wasn’t too shabby!

11 plus.

I honestly think the money just doesn’t always translate to better. My dc who was state up to the end of year R had excellent grounding on phonics eg

@pentium85 ... Boys at my DC's state school used to ask for permission to take off their blazers when they came into my house! You really can't generalise but I do second the idea that state school children are more resilient. Personal experience, that's all ...

LondonGirl83 ... if she's that bright she'll cope anywhere, with your support. And if you think 7+ is "stress" ... just wait until later. Not wishing to sound harsh but there are more important things to think about in a child's development.

@Pentium85

I am teacher and have worked in quite a few state schools since the start of my career. Every single school asked pupils to stand behind their chair in silence until told to sit down by the teacher. I cannot imagine a lesson starting differently. I think state schools are stricter than you think they are, and pupils’ manners, politeness and values are something all the schools I’ve worked at really worked on - successfully!

School benefits aside. If you are not currently affected I think you may be being hasty.

The “what if’s” if a global recession aren’t necessary new. There’s usually also “what if I lose my job, what if Brexit affects by business?” Etc etc.

If it was always going to be a squeeze financially then yes re-think.

I haven’t really observed that, having seen both state and independent schools children develop and mature. I think resilience is almost a gift from parents: an expectation. My DDs boarded. They are hugely resilient. They take what comes and make the best of it! DD1 is hugely resilient in doing her job. It’s vital that she is. Young people who are not resilient come from all walks of life and all educational backgrounds. State doesn’t mean more resilience at all if parents Molly coddle - and believe me, they do! Everywhere.

I think it’s also very difficult to generalise about experiences across different types of private schools:

Academic London prep
Small nurturing cosy rural prep
Boarding school

The small nurturing country prep is more likely to have parents and DC with “needs” they don’t think will be addressed in all the lovely small village state schools! They possibly have DC who are less resilient because they have actively sought the small nurturing private environment to keep away from those pesky village children.