Atheism / Church of England school

[Starbuck8419]

Ok, first of all, this thread is not an attack on any religion. I’m not here to debate the rights/wrongs/truth or facts about anyone’s beliefs. I’m merely asking for advice especially from people who have been in this situation before.

My husband and I moved from a large town so we could raise our daughter in the countryside/village atmosphere. Part of the allure was the small village type schools which we are lucky enough to be surrounded by two good/outstanding rated ones.
Our daughter started in September and when we went to visit, the head showed us round and we asked him how our atheist beliefs fit in with the C of E teachings and philosophies.
We are aware that every school must follow the national curriculum but we essentially wanted to know how religious it would be there on a day to day basis.

The head advised us that even though it’s a small school only about five families are practicing christians and they have a small prayer corner in each classroom because they have too and anything else is essentially, tick boxing. A child/family could be as religious or non religious as they wanted without it being thrown down our necks.

In the past few months I’m starting to get a different insight into it though.

They have assemblies where parents can go and it’s very religious. One of the teachers is a devout Jehovah’s Witness yet she presumably (given the age group she looks after,) teaches science and yesterday my daughter came out with ash on her forehead.

Now look, before anyone says “it’s a c of e I don’t know what you expected” please remember I never went to this type of school. This is my only child so I have no experience of this sort of thing and the school wasn’t quite sold to us in this way.

I’m just wondering if anyone else is an atheist and sends their kid to a Christian school and how they deal with these sorts of things?

Thank you xx

Haha happy little atheist! I love it.
I went to a religious private school. It was all bibles and hymns etc etc. Couldn’t be further from who I am now.

That’s good to hear and yes I agree with you. A good teacher should be able to do both but I find it’s always a contradiction to be able to do so in a way.

You didn’t see our pancakes. Poor things scared for life lol

Mine were a flop (no pun intended) too. I’ve lost the back I think and might make some more tonight.

We’re atheist with DC in a CofE school.

We go heavily with ‘it’s what some people believe, you have to make up your own mind’ with a side of ‘you should respect what other people think whether or not you think it too’. (And also ‘don’t feel the need to tell everyone we don’t believe’.)

Tbh, there’s a lot more religion than I was expecting but they have learned about other religions too so I’m okay with it now. (I did have a few anguished moments early on.)

OP out of curiosity do you have a choice of whether to send your child to a faith school or not. I come from a small town where every primary is a faith school so the non believer in me has to put up with it

Op what I would maybe do is have a dig about to what extent Christianity is taught as a subject and how it is preached.

So for example the ash on the head - in my class the children have learnt about Hinduism and daily rituals and Dawali - the children (who wanted to) had a tiny bit of ash rubbed onto their foreheads as part of the lesson on daily practise. Likewise this week some of the children have been taught about Shrove Tuesday, Lent and Ash Wednesday but not as “Jesus went into the dessert for 40 days before dying to save you all from sin” - rather they’ve been taught “Christians believe that Jesus went into the dessert for 40 days and returned....etc” - the demonstration lesson of an Ash Wednesday service involved ash.

I wouldn’t worry about the JW teacher - I’ve worked with a JW before - if anything, she won’t want involvement in the Christian side of things (my colleague wouldn’t participate in any Christmas tasks or Easter or even birthday cards) but she will have to teach the science on the national curriculum. C of E is certainly no freedom from Ofsted.

My son attends a c of e school and I am chair of the pta and a school governor so I’m quite in the know about day to day activities. All c of e schools will have a Christian ethos about kindness etc but Attributed to God in some way. Obviously kindness is not solely attributed to those observing the Christian faith so it’s still a great message even if you are an atheist. For the record I am a catholic through the family and did have my son baptised but I would say I’m more of a spiritual person and don’t attend church regularly. Having said that there are school church services at the church connected to DS school each term and the vicar is very involved in the school by doing assemblies once a week and there are prayers involved. We also have Muslim, Hindu, Jewish and atheist families at our school. I think ultimately most of the Christian ‘teachings’ are quite positive so maybe you can just reiterate the message; kindness, helping others etc but without the emphasis on ‘God’. We only have a handful of families that actually attend the church outside of school services and we are not pressured to go at all. Overall I think it’s quite a positive outlook and although I’m not an atheist; I’m definitely not a practicing Christian either. As your little one gets older they will echo your beliefs more I’m sure. Xx

Mallysmomma, I totally agree with you. Learning about religion is good, even you don't believe it. It teaches children about other people's view and to be kind, tolerant and understanding to others pov. Knowing about what other people think is great way to open your mind.

You can withdraw from the sex ed elements of SRE in primary which is about 1 or 2 lessons in the whole scheme.

C of E adhere to the curriculum, will teach about a range of religions for children to compare. All faiths have value and all teachers should be teaching x believe this and x believe that. But children will be taught religious language, expected to talk about similarities and differences and understand what spiritual is. Children will experience different celebrations like Christmas, Diwali, Chinese New Year, Eid etc.
Have a look at their last SIAMS report to see how they did last time and development areas. This is considered an Ofsted of 'RE provision.

I think as my daughter is in reception and she’s my one and only, I’m experiencing that now. Happy for her to learn about all sorts but it’s how heavy I’m concerned with but after some of the responses on here I’m happy to see I’m not alone and that there is room for flexibility later on in the school years

Oh god really? We do to a degree. Everywhere close to us is a village c of e school. Every primary further away is in a bigger town and isn’t religious but they aren’t as good so we kind of had to put up and shut up really.

That’s interesting to know that the JW opted not to be a part. Now I’m aware of her beliefs I’ll be keen to see if she is about during the Easter and Christmas celebrations.

See, the way you say it is how I’d like it to be taught “some people believe” etc etc.

I think where my main concern is, is that she had this ash rubbed into her forehead and I wasn’t advised it was going to happen.
And yes, I appreciate no harm no foul etc etc but I don’t feel 100% comfortable with it. I can’t quite explain why but I don’t. It feels like a step too far for her at that age given our personal beliefs. I guess it would have been nice to have the option so I could of spoken to her about it before hand maybe.
But coming out of school with this black splodge on her head saying it’s for Ash Wednesday and god is great etc etc was a bit of a shock 😊

Since your dd is 4, and your only child, I can totally understand your pov. I was the same. Trust me, they will start to understand in few years time.

Thank you that’s really informative to know from someone with such extensive experience.

I mean if my daughter decides she wants to be a Christian then, as much as I can’t understand it myself, I’d happily support her and be glad she’s in the right environment and yes I do love the beliefs of kindness and empathy etc which I try to instill in her generally (although not under the banner of religion.)I suppose I also wondered how science for example would be taught in a c of e school. I know it’s the curriculum and it has to be done but there’s ways and means. Same with religious philosophies.

Some people think Jesus did this.
Some people think the universe was created this way etc. As long as it’s all taught fairly if that’s the right word, I’m happy. It’s just lately I feel it’s all been incredibly one sided but she’s only little and can’t really make up her mind.

Much like everything, My thoughts are complete contradictions 😊

As another governor from a C of E primary, I'm quite surprised at the head's assertion that they 'have to' have prayer corners in each classroom. We certainly don't in ours, and I've been involved with the school for 13 years, so would probably have noticed by now.
Mind you, we haven't admitted a child on faith grounds since I've been there either, so perhaps it's unusual in that respect.

I totally agree. I encourage her to learn about all aspects of the world as much as she can. The similarities, the differences because I think it does make you more knowledgable and understanding. Hatred is mostly born out of fear and education can go a long way to preventing that.

Oh really? That’s interesting.

On our application we had to tick the relevant box for example if they had a sibling there already, lived in the village, went to church etc etc.

As an atheist, only child living in the adjacent village with no disabilities we were last on the list should the spaces be over subscribed. Thankfully they weren’t!!!

I figured that was procedure for all areas.

Thank you for understanding 💜

We have prayers spaces in each classroom which is not unusual for outstanding SIAMs schools. It is a good place for children to write about their worries, death of family members, pets, fall outs and sometimes concerns. Might be put on a tree, in a box, burnt, put in envelopes or planted depending on that terms theme.

My children go to c of e school. They have chapel every other week. I think they say a prayer in assembly. But other than that it's just like any other school. They have RE and are taught about other religions.
I'm surprised about the ashes as that must mean she went to a service - my kids have not gone to a proper service (chapel is just a talk by the clergy, not a service). But I wouldn't worry about it - they will teach her all about science etc.

Thank you everyone. I’ve enjoyed reading your opinions and advice and it’s eased my mind somewhat. It’s nice to see that regardless of beliefs I can actually get a sensible discourse out of most of you 😊

she had this ash rubbed into her forehead and I wasn’t advised it was going to happen

Since you're not religious and presumably don't see the ash as having any spiritual significance, I wouldn't worry about this.

We had Passover meals and similar in RE and went to different types of church services, etc in school - they don't tend to consult the parents every time for stuff like that (obviously they do if it's a trip).

My DC moved from a CofE primary to a non-religious primary when we moved, and though the first school was very sweet, they had a far wider religious education at the second school. They visited mosques and learned heaps about Islam (partly because of the demographic of the area) and about lots of other religions they never really covered in detail at the CofE school.

That said, even as an agnostic, I wouldn't be without the hymns and bible stories I grew up with at my own CofE village primary - I know you might not think they're that valuable, but along with Greek/Roman myths, etc, they're a solid foundation for literary and artistic criticism as your DD gets older.

I’m agnostic and DH is an atheist. DD started her school life in a non religious school - aged 4 she came home announcing our god was called Allah .

We moved when she was in year 4 and she now goes to a small Church in Wales village school, very much like yours by the sound of it. There is quite a bit of Christian religious stuff going on, assembly is called worship and they pray every day. DD is in year 6 now and very much an atheist. We talk about respect for other people’s faiths and keeping quiet about thinking religion is all made up (her words not mine). She knows that the institution she’s in is religious and that she doesn’t have to believe but have to respect. They went to church today for Ash Wednesday, and she refused the ash on the forehead (“weird”, she said), but she takes part in prayers and day to day activities. I’m a bit sad she left the choir though - because she doesn’t like singing hymns...

(Having said all this, I quite like the school’s ethos and their values - which are Christian but don’t have to be if you know what I mean.)

Oh, and they learn about all religions at school, they visited a synagogue not too long ago.