Changing rooms and withdrawing from PE

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Hi. My DD is 8, year 3. She's becoming increasingly aware of her body. In school, her class gets changed for PE all together, there isn't a partition for boys and girls. This wasn't an issue in year 2, but she has told me she is becoming embarrassed as boys point at the girls in their underwear. I know there's no legislation until year 7 upwards, but I've read the 'best practise' NSPCC factsheet. I went to this school, and there were changing rooms in the 80s, obviously they must have knocked them down/renovated. The school won't put up screens to divide the genders. There is no Intimate Care Policy on their website. The teacher, worryingly, leaves the window blinds open during changing (with staff/pupils/visitors walking past outside). I want to protect her privacy, and in her words she has told me she feels vulnerable. What are my rights over refusing for her to do PE or her getting changed in front of the boys? I'm also concerned for the year 6 pupils who may have started to develop early. Tia.

There is no right to withdraw from PE.
There is no requirement for a specific policy around changing. Safeguarding and school environment dictate what is doable. An intimate care policy can be out in place if needed and isn't about changing for PE.

We have all children changing together until year 5 then the girls change in the corridor. We don't have any changing rooms.

The option is for her to change in the toilets. I think you are over worrying 're the blinds personally. You can't supervise 30 children at this age if you are putting up screens and peer on peer abuse is more prevalent than any other safeguarding issues in schools.

If she is that worried I would discuss changing in the toilet.

In my dc primary they all changed together until y6.

Has something triggered this feeling in your dd. Feeling “vulnerable” is not a word most 8 year olds would use. Are you subconsciously putting your worries forward? Not a critical thing- I know I’ve done it regarding a range of issues.

Put her kit under her clothes.
Get her to put her uniform back on top of her kit.

At ds primary school pupils came to school in their PE kit on PE day, Hoddie, Tshirt & Jogging bottoms in winter/Autumn/Spring & Tshirt & shorts in summer. They stayed in kit all day, saved the hassle of any changing issues.

Whenever I read these threads I am always grateful that DC's school had separate changing from Year 3. I find it horrifying that primary schools still have no provision for separate changing areas. Particularly as girls are developing younger and younger these days (even separate changing in Y6 is too late, IMO).
I agree your best bet is for her to change in the toilets.

Depending on what they have to wear for PE, can she wear it under uniform (if she has uniform)? My DD wears Lycra shorts and a t-shirt for after school gymnastics and wears it under school clothes.

Surely the issue here is the boys pointing at the girls in their underwear. That is an issue which should be raised with the teacher.

I have a ds in year 5. In his school they had separate changing for boys and girls from year 3 onwards. I thought this was standard everywhere.

It's not standard every where but I'm surprised that the school haven't just said she can go elsewhere to get changed if she wants to.

I agree that they can't be messing around putting screens up and I don't see the issue with the blinds being open either.

She knows the word vulnerable because it was on the news; she asked what it meant, I explained, and she used it in context. Her vocabulary is impressive, she reads natural history books I have laying around haha!

I've suggested she wear her kit under her uniform but she is so self aware that she said she'd feel embarrassed being the only one to do that, likewise going the loos. She doesn't wear a vest (gets too hot), so she's literally stood in her knickers.

I don't think I'm projecting my own worries onto her; she came to me and told me she feels embarrassed and obviously I'm going to take this up with the school.

I have again spoken to the school just now, turns out there are changing rooms, but they won't use them as it's too much hassle (not verbatim) to move the kids there, then to the sports hall.

Personally, in the age of kids developing earlier and internet use and kids becoming aware of what is what much earlier, I'd expect for year 3 and above to have separate spaces for changing. After all, if it's law that there needs to be separate toilets for genders from age 8, surely it follows suit that there should be separate areas for changing (given that technically you see more during changing, than you would behind a toilet cubicle door).

I doubt they make the year 5 and 6 change in front of each other so whatever solution to the problem they use then they surely can use now?

Who did you speak to before was it just the teacher or the head teacher or the safeguarding lead?

They should be cracking down on the behaviour.

"I don't see the issue with the blinds being open either." Well I do. Kids in their kinicker and undies and her window looks out over a small playground and then a public road. All it takes is a weirdo and a zoom Lens.

Also, the head said no to using the loos - that it would cause too much disruption for the rest of the class; they'd all want to do it. Bizarre that they have changing rooms but won't use them.

No need for her to be stood in just her knickers though. Put shorts on under skirt, take skirt off. Take top off and put pe top on. Do in reverse after. If she is feeling that self conscious then why won’t she wear a vest?

So they have changing rooms and refuse to use them?

Usually the excuse is there arent any. Although where they went I dont know cos they had them when I too went to school on the 80s and 90s.

Seems almost as if they are deliberately humiliating the children with open blinds and windows and changing in front of each other

If they have separate cubicles then they don't need separate toilets for different genders. They can all use the one toilet area regardless of gender as many schools do, more so in secondary schools.

None of the children are stood in their knickers usually? They take off one item and replace it with the kit item. They don't completely strip off to be left in their knickers?

I would consider wearing the PE cotton t shirt on PE days so that being stood in her knickers doesn't happen.

Not just separate cubicles cabbage they have to be fully self enclosed units with no gaps under the sides or the door.

Shared sink areas are not compliant and many schools are indeed breaking the law.

And no kids shouldn't have to change the way they get dressed or undressed because schools dont allow them to have separate changing facilities when they are right ther to use

When I started teaching in the early nineties, primary children did PE in their pants and vests and nobody thought anything of it! Times have changed and it’s a shame that innocence has been lost really. No criticism of your child as it’s the same everywhere, but I think it’s sad that children as young as Y3 are now so self conscious. If she feels this way though, then school will hopefully support her in some way. As someone else said, there shouldn’t be any reason for anyone to be standing in their knickers if they undress carefully.

But it's not just about knickers. Puberty can start from 8 years old onwards. They need the privacy of not changing infront of eachother whether they are happy to run around or stand on tables dancing in their pants or whether they are more private.

We cant on one hand teach them their bodies are private then expect them to get their clothes off on front if the opposite sex.

And tbh I went to a "forget your pe kit and do it in your knickers " school I'm fact we had pe knickers. Believe me it was humiliating and upsetting to do so back then. You just didnt say anything cos youd get a slap when you went home or a board rubber thrown at you if you did.

I found doing PE in my underwear exposing and humiliating as a reception aged child in the late 70s/early 80s. I’m gobsmacked to hear it was deemed acceptable as late as the early 90s.

OP, I am surprised the teachers haven’t come down hard on the behaviour of the boys. Completely unacceptable.

Teach her to change without showing her underwear. Most people on a beach manage to be discreet.
Pity an eight year old worries at all.
I really don’t think there are many perverts on school premises with zoom lenses.

In our Primary school boys change separately from the girls from yr 3 onwards if they need to change but on the main PE day (Friday) everyone comes in PE kit (black tracksuit/leggings or shorts in summer, T shirt and hoody). Gets around the problem of time being wasted/PE kit forgotten.

Teach her to change without showing her underwear. Most people on a beach manage to be discreet

Again why do people talk as if shes the problem for having perfectly normal feelings when
A) it's not her mucking about
B) shes doing nothing wrong by getting changed the way she is
C) the teacher doesnt give a shit how her or any of the other kids feel with the blinds wide open regardless of zoom lenses or lack there of.
D) theres perfectly good changing rooms available

Get her/make her a modesty towel (sew ends of a towel together to form a loop then a bit of elastic around the top so it stays up).
Whenever I get changed in public I wear one of these.