Changing rooms and withdrawing from PE

[usernamewastaken]

Hi. My DD is 8, year 3. She's becoming increasingly aware of her body. In school, her class gets changed for PE all together, there isn't a partition for boys and girls. This wasn't an issue in year 2, but she has told me she is becoming embarrassed as boys point at the girls in their underwear. I know there's no legislation until year 7 upwards, but I've read the 'best practise' NSPCC factsheet. I went to this school, and there were changing rooms in the 80s, obviously they must have knocked them down/renovated. The school won't put up screens to divide the genders. There is no Intimate Care Policy on their website. The teacher, worryingly, leaves the window blinds open during changing (with staff/pupils/visitors walking past outside). I want to protect her privacy, and in her words she has told me she feels vulnerable. What are my rights over refusing for her to do PE or her getting changed in front of the boys? I'm also concerned for the year 6 pupils who may have started to develop early. Tia.

I think if she feels self conscious then the school have a responsibility to allow her to change in the toilets. They also have a responsibility to address the behaviour of the boys who are pointing at girls and making them feel uncomfortable.

Agree with “ teach her to change without showing her underwear”

It’s a very British skill for life. And I am serious. From mixed dorm changing when backpacking round Europe to bloody open plan gym changing with the “ lovelies “ flaunting everything ( or mumsnet fears of Canadian trans women perving in girls changing rooms offering tampons ).

If you can change your clothes without anyone seeing you are definitely winning

The thing that jumped out at me is that this is a case of boys misbehaving. And instead of that being tackled, there’s an expectation that the girls will find a workaround

How about some early lessons in ‘how not to be a creep’?

At my school, boys and girls change separately in key stage 2. I tend to send the girls to the cloakroom because I can trust them to be sensible and keep the boys in the classroom. Your dd's teacher should be able to work something out. She can't be the only one who's getting embarrassed.

I think if she feels self conscious then the school have a responsibility to allow her to change in the toilets

The op said there were changing rooms. Why should she have to go change in toilets. Wheres she supposed to put her clothes. What if someone opens the doors on her. What if they haven't been cleaned yet.

Tell the school, they will find a solution!
My DD was similar in y4. I had a long chat with her, to find out what is going on and what is bothering her. I then talked to the teacher.
The school just separated boys / girls. One set in the actual sports hall the others in the class room... I have to say, she went to a tiny primary school, they didn't have changing rooms at all. They made it work for all kids without singling my DD out. Don't forget, your DD's school has a duty of care. They are able to find a solution.

I think the best approach for this would be for her to wear shorts and vest under her uniform on PE days.

It doesn't sound like the school have any intention of changing the rules and they don't have to as there is no legal requirement.

M&S sell shortie knickers and crop vests that won't be too hot but will give some coverage.

www.marksandspencer.com/2-pack-cotton-rich-crop-tops-6-16-years-/p/clp60292863?color=WHITE

www.marksandspencer.com/7-pack-stars-and-stripes-briefs/p/clp60292822?color=WHITEMIX

My daughter's school has the same rule as @Nat6999 said: on PE days kids come to school in their PE kits and stay in them all day. I think all this changing faff is a complete waste of time and horrible for the kids. The only time kids in my daughter's school ever have to change is gor swimming and that's in separate changing rooms. I would be super concerned if boys and girls changed in the same room and boys were making comments! You wouldn't think it's acceptable for adults, so why should kids be subjected to that.

When I was at school we had to change for PE, but absolutely always to separate changing rooms to the boys! And no teacher was in there with us (with had a male PE teacher) so we were changing perfectly fine on our own.

Apologies for the typos. And forgot to add - my daughter is in year 5, but they had the same rules since reception. Boys and girls are never expected to change in front of each other!

Tell the teacher and I’m sure they will accommodate your child’s needs.

I teach 6-7 year olds and have a little boy who joined the class from abroad. He was absolutely horrified when he saw all the children strip off to put on their PE kits. We haven’t got the facilities or staff to have younger children changing separately (and the rest of the class couldn’t care less) so he comes in wearing school-coloured joggers and a cotton T-shirt under his school jumper on PE days. We have a fairly relaxed uniform policy, so no one notices.

I have this same issue but with my DS.
He's 8 and has always hated people seeing his body.
I spoke to his teacher and she just said they don't have the ability to give him somewhere else to change 🤷‍♀️
He now goes just outside the classroom door in the corridor between the door frame and a row of lockers, if that makes sense?
His teacher has told him, and me, that it's silly and no one else is bothered about getting changed in front of each other and he really needs to come into the classroom like everyone else. I told him to carry on doing what he's doing.
She was taken aback when I told her that the only way we could get him to do swimming lessons was to get him a full swim suit from neck to knee.
He also said he doesn't like being in the classroom, or communal bit of the changing room at swimming, when other kids are getting changed. He really feel that it's something they should all be able to do in private.
My other DS couldn't care less where he gets changed, they're totally chalk and cheese!

Areas for separate genders are no use whatsoever. The legal case Safe Schools Alliance are bringing in Oxfordshire proves that. safeschoolsallianceuk.net/legal-action/

Kids need single sex changing areas and I wish we’d had them at my primary school back in the 80s instead of all having to change together.

I was a child of the 60s and it was normal to all change in the same room , i remember feeling uncomfortable then .I think its ok at infant level but not after , girls can start to 'develop' at a fairly young age and its perfectly acceptable for them not to feel comfortable changing in front of others

Yy pel

Kids dont suddenly care more now than they used to. They always hated it but back when teachers were allowed to hit you or throw stuff at you and the fear of calling your parents actually meant something, well you just knew better than to argue.

Many boys also start bathing and changing with the door closed at 7ish. Your dd is not being unreasonable at all.

It's often quoted on MN that it's not unusual for 9 year olds to have periods these days. Coupled with the surprisingly common attitude that children knowing about sex and reproduction makes them less innocent, why does the girl wearing a pad and a bra be potentially humiliated?

I was in primary school in the 70s/80s and hated pe in pants and vests btw It was cold and humiliating.

Coupled with the surprisingly common attitude that children knowing about sex and reproduction makes them less innocent, why does the girl wearing a pad and a bra be potentially humiliated?

That was me in Y6. I was the oldest & for some time, the only one with a bra & a period. I HATED changing in public.

My kids' school don't change separately until y6 and then the boys change in the toilets. The school is really small even getting half a class into the toilets is an issue.

My girls are in y4 and they wear cropped tops, have to be next or river island apparently, and the under summer dress knicker things on pe days.

I went to an all girls primary and we had to get changed in the classroom I found it totally humiliating I was really fat for a couple of years.

I don't know what the solution is.

Everyone on here making out as if it's the mums or little girls fault... Really?

The issue is the boys. They are causing the issue. I'd make a complaint to the teacher about their behaviour, at the very least it's bullying. I'd be asking for THEM to be removed from the situation and made an example of rather than your poor DD having to wear her kit under her clothes or go to the toilets

It's not just the boys though is it?
Even if they quietly got changed and ignored the girls, it would still be inappropriate for them to change in the same space as girls.

A good number of my DD's year were wearing bras in Year 5 and some had started their periods. It would not have been fine for them to change with boys regardless of their behaviour.

My kids' school don't change separately until y6 and then the boys change in the toilets

I find these weird arbitrary cut offs most bizarre really. I mean its treated as if year 5 or year six is some big massive hap away from the rest of it and suddenly deemed worthy of changing separately.. but the oldest in yr 4 can literally just be a day or 2 younger than the youngest if yr 5 so the difference is non existent then. We are talking days for many. So why is it afforded to some and not others.

And if theres a solution for year 5s and 6s why is it not adopted earlier

It's also a question of supervision, when you have half the class away from the classroom. Even the most sensible children can be silly on occasions; if there were to be an accident in the unsupervised group, the teacher would be held responsible.

But theres more tas in the younger years so theoretically it should be easier then than in years 5 and 6.

In the junior classes at DS school there are no TAs in the afternoons unless they are a designated 1-1 for a specific child.

Im surprised the school has brushed this off and not suggested any solution. I used to teach y4, and we separated kids from y5 onwards. A parent came to me to say her daughter was beginning to develop and was uncomfortable changing in front of boys. I separated the girls and boys for changing from the very next lesson.

Generally 2 classes will have PE back to back, especially if it’s taught by specialists for PPA cover. You can get all the kids changed at the same time, before the first lesson, with boys in one room, girls in the other. They then all change back after the second lesson. They do have to sit in one lesson in PE kit but that’s not the end of the world. There’s always a way.