cursive handwriting, lack of support from school and 11+ prep

[potatochipsandcheese]

My child is in a rural primary school. its small for the area with only one form per year, but it has large classes (30)

He has recently had some issues with bullying in the school, which is something we have been unable to deal with by going into the school personally. The head states that 'there have been no cases of bullying in 35 years' and refuses to do anything about it.

Anyway, as a result of this, my son has decided to go for his 11+ and try to get into the grammar. I am happy to coach him through this as is his dad, what we are finding is that he is totally behind in literacy due to his school insisting on him writing in cursive handwriting. I can see his frustration, he spends a third of the day bored in mathematics as his grasp on this far exceeds his classmates (though he struggles to show his working out for the same issues as the cursive) and then he spends a third of the day feeling not good enough because he cant seem to get his litracy work marked (they wont mark if its not in cursive and if its in cursive its illegible) then they do a mix of science/re and sport for the rest of the week. He says he spends more time learning about God, than he does supported to be better in maths, science and English.

So we are desperately trying to bring him up to speed in english (most importantly) get him writing legibly (not in cursive) and accelerating his love for mathematics in a way that challenges him and inspires him.

The issue we are having, is with his attitude. I suppose 5 years of school have taught him that hes not good enough and even when he 'understands something' he is not able to qualify to them exactly what he needs to do, so he is immediately marked down.

Because of this hes given up on trying and if you correct him, he gets stupidly upset, throws things, overreacts and just generally makes everything a complete nightmare and a chore.

I am frustrated with the school, they have (in the past and recently) made it quite clear that safety, consent and respect arent important to them. They are not teaching my child to excel in his chosen fields and allowing him to flounder in those he isn't naturally getting (despite being immensely bright) because of (what I consider to be quite draconian) targets, like cursive handwriting.

I find it difficult because if he asks me why he is spending 6 hours a week learning about religion, I can't answer him and if he asks me why he needs cursive, I cant answer him either. It just makes absolutely not difference to adult life from what I can tell.

The school are not allowing him to even write in a pen because he cant write in cursive (which all his friends are allowed to do) he is just utterly disillusioned by schooling and education, despite being really bright and engaged in subjects that interest him.

Im preparing to go into battle with the school. For the last week I have removed him from the school at 15 mins past the afternoon bell, in order to school him at home as its the only time he seems to get anything relevant done.

Nothing more frustrating than seeing a bright child unable to form the letter 'e' or feel he has to join everything up so his writing is not readable.

Has anyone else found this with primary education? Any advice?

Home schooling is going well, he is really learning beautifully and his rages are getting less and less (though he hates being wrong and argues with us a lot)

I am just worried about the ensuing conversation with the school where they question his absence in the afternoons.

I think you need a meeting with the head and class teacher together. I also think that there needs to be some recognition from your point of view is that education is a partnership between school and home. You come across as blaming the school and that will probably put them on the defensive straightaway. You need to approach it in a way of what can WE do (i.e. school AND home).

I also think you need to think about what emotions you show in front of your son. Pulling him out twice a week because you dont like what he's being taught / how he's being taught, and then.expecting him to knuckle down / do what hes asked to do for the rest of the time must be confusing.

I also think whilst he won't need cursive writing / to show his workings for the 11+, he absolutely will need to show his workings at grammar school. I think you have a mountain to climb to be ready for the 11+ if he's behind at this stage.

@reefandsail

• So little of the Primary curriculum is based on writing at length. Where do the school say he is with respect to age related expectations in reading and SPaG?

His reading is above expected, he reads constantly as much as he can. No problems with that.

• Have you asked for him to be allowed to work on a laptop when writing at length is required?

Yes, they've told me that he writes beautifully and comes out with some great ideas if he works on an iPad but he can't write on paper.
I told them to just let him use an iPad or laptop and allow some time for handwriting and they said no. They said they wont even let him write with a pen.

• Schools are allowed to assess typed work when making judgements for Y6, there is no requirement for it to be handwritten.

They seem reluctant to the point of refusal, to do that.

• How is your DS's emotional literacy? He sounds quite behind in that regard.

Im not sure what you mean.

@Africa2go

I totally agree that he needs to show his working out/write legibly for grammar school, but thats a really long way off and if I keep flexi schooling him, its not going to be a problem to get him up to speed.

I do blame the school. They have very few jobs at primary level and spending upwards of 6 hours a week indoctrinating the children into the Christian faith, when half the kids can't write their own name legibly is not a good use of time (no there isn't an available non-dom before you start with that)

I will not apologise or feel badly about pulling him out of school for two afternoons a week in order to teach him in a way that is nourishing him, helping him immensely and making him feel roundedly better about school and about the future. Its brilliant for him. Ironically, tonight he quite naturally started writing the odd word in (legible) cursive. He just needed the more one-to-one approach so he could develop his skills.

I feel very luck to have the time to take him out of school and do this. If the school have an issue with it, thats their issue. The boys love the social aspect of school as well with science/humanities and sports. The school are failing them in other areas and if I can help with that, I will. Its actually irrelevant how 'the school feels' what is relevant, is that DS1 is getting the correct help and support

Actually OP, its not irrelevant what the school feels. You should (as the school should) trying to work as a team. Your son is in Yr 5 so has almost 2 school years to go. Thats going to be 2 long & unhappy years for him if this isnt resolved.

@africa

I'm not sure why being comfortably and able at literacy, as well as his other subjects are going to make him 'unhappy at school'? That makes no sense.

Are you suggesting that the school is going to treat him badly? Worse than they are now? Right now hes spending hours each week completely lost in literacy lessons and hours feeling totally bored because hes so ahead in maths. If I can help him see why we need those skills hes' missing, he will do better at both.

His teacher actually praised his handwriting for the first time on Thursday, that was after 1 2 hour home schooling session. This is exactly what he needs right now.

hes given up on trying and if you correct him, he gets stupidly upset, throws things, overreacts and just generally makes everything a complete nightmare and a chore.

his rages are getting less

He finds it very difficult to learn

He just hates being wrong

^ I mean this.

I think I'd be working with the school to develop his resilience, ability to persevere with a challenging (and/ or boring!) task, willingness to accept being wrong and/ or finding something really difficult as part of the process of learning etc. These are equally as important skills in life as academic achievement.

First of all, what you're describing is not a difficulty in literacy, it's a difficulty in writing.
Having read all your comments on this post, one thing strikes me the most. You keep commenting on how bright he is. How do you know that and what are you using to measure his intelligence? Especially maths. If he's that bright, you would expect him to be able to grasp the correlation between producing legible cursive writing as requested by the teacher and being allowed to then write in pen. For most school, having a 'pen licence' is a great motivator to most children to improve their writing.
You've also commented on his reaction to getting things wrong (this is what is meant by emotional literacy). You could actually be setting him up to fail with regard to passing his 11+ If he can only produce appropriate levels of work with 1:1 teaching at home from yourself. He needs to be able to produce work of a high quality independently if he is to succeed in a grammar school.
I think you need to make an appointment with the Head at school and explain your concerns, whilst also listening to theirs. It would be very very difficult to change this time of the year in Year 6.
BTW, there is absolutely no way the school is teaching 6 hours of RE a week. They may well do a bit every day if it's a Church school, just like them doing guided reading daily ( which most schools do). What your son tells you about the things he doesn't like in school may not be entirely accurate.

@reef YES

yes this is exactly what my concerns are.

The actual holes in his eduaction are easily filled, but we cannot do that if emotionally he is unable to accept help/support or thinks hes failing and reacts terribly when we start teaching him the right way to do things, or placing importance on things he doesnt quite understand (like working things out)

So its those areas I really want to help him develop. His ability to (without ego) accept help, to be able to learn without the aggression if he feels 'hard done by' and this idea that if he isn't perfect at something right away - he is never going to get it.

But I've tried to speak to the school about that before and their fundamental issues are very different to what I consider to be important. They want him writing in cursive and acing his SATS and I want him to be emotionally comfortable and happy with himself.

I dont mind what school he goes to/how well he does at school even, I just want him to be happy and the current status quo isnt making him happy.

Op, how are the school teaching 6 hours of RE a week? How do they fit everything else in?!

@Soontobe60

• First of all, what you're describing is not a difficulty in literacy, it's a difficulty in writing.

Its both, he is both unable to write coherently and comfortably and because of this he is failing behind in his literacy work.

• Having read all your comments on this post, one thing strikes me the most. You keep commenting on how bright he is. How do you know that and what are you using to measure his intelligence?

He is bright, he picks things up easily. He very quickly managed to grasp the 11+ familiarisation tests and he is comfortable explaining and listening to explanations of complex ideas and meanings. His school agree he is exceptionally bright. Its not really questioned.

• Especially maths.

His father is a mathematician and they have long (very boring) conversations about maths/with maths/concepts of maths

• If he's that bright, you would expect him to be able to grasp the correlation between producing legible cursive writing as requested by the teacher and being allowed to then write in pen. For most school, having a 'pen licence' is a great motivator to most children to improve their writing.

This makes no sense. There is no discernable reason for anyone to be able to write in cursive. It is needless. He isn't going to keep doing something that he is unable to excell in because he finds it boring and humiliating in equal measures. I understand that, I think most people would.

• You've also commented on his reaction to getting things wrong (this is what is meant by emotional literacy). You could actually be setting him up to fail with regard to passing his 11+ If he can only produce appropriate levels of work with 1:1 teaching at home from yourself.

• I think its fairly reasonable to assume that a child who is bored out of his mind in a basic primary will do better in a school that promotes excellence. He needs to be more challenged and inspired at school.

Perhaps we are wrong, perhaps he will hate the grammar and need to move to a comp. Which is fine, but his ability to complete the 11+ well, shows that we should at least give him the chance to try.

-He needs to be able to produce work of a high quality independently if he is to succeed in a grammar school.

Yes, I know, thats why I am taking hours out of my life to teach him the things he needs.

• I think you need to make an appointment with the Head at school

Shes totally useless

• and explain your concerns, whilst also listening to theirs.

tried it, uselss.

• It would be very very difficult to change this time of the year in Year 6.

Hes not in year 6, he's in year 5

• BTW, there is absolutely no way the school is teaching 6 hours of RE a week. They may well do a bit every day if it's a Church school, just like them doing guided reading daily ( which most schools do). What your son tells you about the things he doesn't like in school may not be entirely accurate.

Regardless, spending any time indoctrinating children into religious persuasions rather than actually teaching them to read and write, is bullshit.

@shellysheridan

clearly they are not fitting everything else in.
they do a 30/45 min assembly every day, then on top of that they do worship, bible study and re

That's crazy. How have you got to year 6 without removing him?

You will obviously have more success sitting 1:1 with him than him being in a class of 30 and one teacher.

However, could he be dyspraxic?

@shellysheridan

To be honest I've always thought the school was a bit too religious but felt that he was emotionally comfortable. I also have two other children, a business that I've built from scratch and a lot of other things going on in my own life. I didnt expect for one second to get to this late on in the game and find that he is floundering in such basic subjects. Totally would understand if he was unable to grasp more complex ideas and so on, but its the reverse.

He is happy at the school, he has good friends there but, he also has a mother who works nearly every evening a week, a father who works full time and a little sister that has only just gone to childcare for a few days a week. Unfortunately its not been possible to purely focus on DS1 and his needs.

I get that the perception will be that I've failed him, that he could have done better or been moved quicker had I been more on the ball with his schooling, but sometimes life isn't that simple.

All I can say is that now I am totally comfortable to give up a few hours a week and flexi school him so that he has the best chance for the future. I know of people who homeschooled for the entire of primary then sent their children to our (excellent) grammars. So this isn't unheard of.

Sounds like our struggles with school. DS7 has hyper mobility in his hands/fingers which makes pencil grip, pressure and control really difficult. Combined with that he has DCD/dyspraxia which impacts balance/coordination, fine and gross motor skills. It took me years to figure out why there was such a mismatch between his understanding/comprehension and the written work he produces. He would always try to get away with writing the bare minimum and he absolutely hated PE because he felt unable to do the things the others did. He used to have meltdowns every morning before school and every evening when it came to homework.

I eventually had him assessed by an OT and also by an EdPsyc at 4 years and at 5 years. He's super bright with a high IQ (130) and really enjoys learning but the DCD and hyper mobility is stopping him from getting his thoughts/ideas and answers on paper effectively and efficiently. Since the formal diagnosis he now has a ECHP and is given extra time to finish his work in school. I'm allowed to scribe homework for him if he's too tired to write. The school has been brilliant, they brought in a writing slope for him if he wants to use it. They give him pencil grips. In lessons he gets a couple of minutes every so often to help him stretch or take a break if he's getting tired from writing. He gets two half hour sessions a week with the school senco to work on handwriting and hand strengthening. Plus in formal exams he will be entitled to extra time. The school is also suggesting familiarising him with a laptop keyboard to help him in the future. We also pay for OT sessions once a week which are expensive but have definitely been helping.

He's still very slow at producing written work and his writing looks like a 5 year old's, the content is also below average for his age because he's trying to write the bare minimum and not expressing himself on paper. But he's happier at school in general and I no longer have to deal with pre school or pre homework meltdowns.

How is your son's general balance/coordination? Is the bullying at school related to that? Also, does he shy away from playing sports? DS is increasingly finding himself being socially isolated because he cannot engage in football in the playground and is not able to bond as well with the other boys. Previously he used to play with the girls but at 7/8 years old they're no longer playing, they tend to sit around and chat instead.

Hope you manage to get an assessment. We went privately. But if you speak to your GP you could possibly get an assessment with a paediatrician.

The school sounds useless:

1. They're not stretching him in maths
2. They're not supporting him in handwriting/English
3. They have a bullying problem
4. It's overly religious.

We've done a mix of independent and state and I've found the best way with state is to ask them what we need to do in order for my child to progress.

So for example with DS1 in grammar to be able to type with his dreadful handwriting the SENCO said he needed to be diagnosed with a condition. So, we had an ed psych and he was diagnosed with dsygraphia - which is basically bad handwriting!

However, what they did also do was to delve into different aspects of his understanding and check that there were no other issues going on...

If I ask them how he should progress, they will tell us to do cursive

What year is your son in at school?

Year 5

I’d suggest getting him assessed privately. May be dyspraxia. In the meantime, how about getting him to learn to type so he has an option to submit his work that way?
Another option is to type his homework for him (with him telling you what to type!) for a while until he gets his confidence back up. My son finds homework a million times easier when he doesn’t have to deal with writing by hand at the same time. Stops the meltdowns which are usually about having to write rather than about the content of the work. And he’s more motivated to learn to type now too.

I’m not sure we do much homework with him, it’s all writing and learning and certainly no large amounts of text atm. I’m looking into rope island for him next year but right now I want to get him up to speed on literacy

Potato you sound like you have a lot on but you seem to really not want to consider looking in to dyslexia or having a private assessment why is that? As it can only benefit your son.

You can also order cursive writing sheets of amazon.

Also I’m confused the school are letting you take him out of school, is this an agreement you have or is it going down as an absence. If there is an agreement in place surely they would give you material to use and work from?

If your determined you want to reach him yourself you need a proper frame work to work from so your son can work towards an outcome or goals as that’s also important so he sees his achievements.

Facebook has a really big community of home schoolers. If you join a few of those you maybe able to pick up tips and access online learning modules they use. I know where I used to live there was a HE community that would meet up at places of learning with their kids such as museums etc.. he’d also get the chance to socialise there too

Actually, there us good evidence that teaching cursive handwriting from the start is very beneficial as it helps with remembering spellings and allows one to write at speed. Clearly he has not learned how to form letters correctly in order to then join them fluently. You indicate that you’ve taken him back to basics regarding letter formation so that should help. Unfortunately the fact that you don’t think cursive is necessary may have rubbed of on him so he can’t see the point either. However, along with the amount of RE he’s doing, that’s the school policy. If you’re not happy with that you need to change schools where it isn’t policy.
Regarding his overall literacy skills, you said he’s above expectations in reading and I assume you also mean in comprehension? If his teacher won’t mark his written answers then that’s not ok.
I misunderstood about him being in Y6, but that may explain some if the challenges he’s facing. The jump in curriculum content from Y4 to Y5 is quite big. Lots of children find this transition difficult as they may have found lots of the learning in Y4 easy and now they find it much harder. That could explain his emotional response to what he perceives as failure.
If he is aware of your feelings about his Headteacher, class teacher, handwriting, RE etc then he’s going to find school very tricky. By removing him from some lessons you’re telling him that he doesn’t have to do the tricky bits of school, and may well become a school refuser leaving you with no choice but to home tutor.
Are you able to carry on with the home teaching out of school hours? Try to build up his resilience and I’d return him there full time after half term.
You really do need to meet with school, or else you’re going to get nowhere.

I tutor a child the same age as your son, with similar issues. Once a week for an hour. My job is to build up his confidence and give him strategies for coping in school. His mum tells me she’s seen an improvement in his emotional state recently as he feels more confident about his ability.

Buy the wipeable cursive writing books. Great for improving writing, go back to the beginning, write and wipe, write and wipe.

www.amazon.co.uk/Wipe-Clean-Workbook-Handwriting-Learning/dp/0312522029?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

I’ve just watched him do 67.2 / 3 in about 15 seconds and, just today I’ve got him understanding what the benefits are of working things out.

I think (watching him) thst he is almost certainly dyslexic. He writes almost everything backwards!

Why am I not getting him a private assessment? Because it’s £350 that I simply don’t have.