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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

cursive handwriting, lack of support from school and 11+ prep

93 replies

potatochipsandcheese · 09/02/2020 13:29

My child is in a rural primary school. its small for the area with only one form per year, but it has large classes (30)

He has recently had some issues with bullying in the school, which is something we have been unable to deal with by going into the school personally. The head states that 'there have been no cases of bullying in 35 years' and refuses to do anything about it.

Anyway, as a result of this, my son has decided to go for his 11+ and try to get into the grammar. I am happy to coach him through this as is his dad, what we are finding is that he is totally behind in literacy due to his school insisting on him writing in cursive handwriting. I can see his frustration, he spends a third of the day bored in mathematics as his grasp on this far exceeds his classmates (though he struggles to show his working out for the same issues as the cursive) and then he spends a third of the day feeling not good enough because he cant seem to get his litracy work marked (they wont mark if its not in cursive and if its in cursive its illegible) then they do a mix of science/re and sport for the rest of the week. He says he spends more time learning about God, than he does supported to be better in maths, science and English.

So we are desperately trying to bring him up to speed in english (most importantly) get him writing legibly (not in cursive) and accelerating his love for mathematics in a way that challenges him and inspires him.

The issue we are having, is with his attitude. I suppose 5 years of school have taught him that hes not good enough and even when he 'understands something' he is not able to qualify to them exactly what he needs to do, so he is immediately marked down.

Because of this hes given up on trying and if you correct him, he gets stupidly upset, throws things, overreacts and just generally makes everything a complete nightmare and a chore.

I am frustrated with the school, they have (in the past and recently) made it quite clear that safety, consent and respect arent important to them. They are not teaching my child to excel in his chosen fields and allowing him to flounder in those he isn't naturally getting (despite being immensely bright) because of (what I consider to be quite draconian) targets, like cursive handwriting.

I find it difficult because if he asks me why he is spending 6 hours a week learning about religion, I can't answer him and if he asks me why he needs cursive, I cant answer him either. It just makes absolutely not difference to adult life from what I can tell.

The school are not allowing him to even write in a pen because he cant write in cursive (which all his friends are allowed to do) he is just utterly disillusioned by schooling and education, despite being really bright and engaged in subjects that interest him.

Im preparing to go into battle with the school. For the last week I have removed him from the school at 15 mins past the afternoon bell, in order to school him at home as its the only time he seems to get anything relevant done.

Nothing more frustrating than seeing a bright child unable to form the letter 'e' or feel he has to join everything up so his writing is not readable.

Has anyone else found this with primary education? Any advice?

Home schooling is going well, he is really learning beautifully and his rages are getting less and less (though he hates being wrong and argues with us a lot)

I am just worried about the ensuing conversation with the school where they question his absence in the afternoons.

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lizzzyyliveson · 09/02/2020 14:52

It sounds as if his teacher/the school are focussing only on his SATs readiness and not on educating him for his future life. You don't need to show working out for maths except that in the SAT test if you get the answer wrong but have shown the correct steps then you still get the full marks. This is not a skill needed for 'real life' it is just a SATs scoring exercise. Similarly with cursive writing. No matter how good the content is, he wont score above Level 3 without cursive so the teacher is checking out of working on improving the content of his writing.
The school sounds lazy and if there is another school in the area you should move your child pronto.

whatsleep · 09/02/2020 14:55

It does seem very harsh. School would be better to offer him some achievable targets rather than refuse to accept his work if it’s not cursive. Are they giving him time to improve as an intervention or just expecting it to happen by magic? Sounds like they are doing a great job of making him feel like he is useless when in reality the areas where he shines are being overlooked.

Personally I would focus on his writing being neat and legible. Good luck Wine

LouReidDododo · 09/02/2020 14:59

I wonder if he has dyslexia and or dyscalculia. I was amazing at reading but getting words on paper was an issue for me - same as maths working out. If he had this he will be allowed extra time in exams and may be able to take exams verbally.

I’d be going in to your school to see what the hell is going on. Being 10 years old and struggling to write a ‘d’ is a big issue. I’d totally forget about grammar and concentrate on why your sons grasp of written work is so low and fixing it.

Has he got dyslexia or is this down to dreadful teaching? Why wasn’t this flagged before now? These are things to discuss with your school.

Also you need to ask how long you have known about this.

I’ve attached the home work dd2 has done today. She’s six and a half.

cursive handwriting, lack of support from school and 11+ prep
potatochipsandcheese · 09/02/2020 15:01

@lizzzyyliveson this was my feeling when I went in to speak to them, they constantly discussed how well he was going to do in his SAT's and how he 'couldnt be a scientist' if he didnt achieve a high grade in them.

actually I have a BSC and I barely got any GCSE's so I know thats totally untrue.

Yes I feel they dont see any point in helping him with his content if hes not going to write in cursive but that didnt make a whole lot of sense to me until you just said that.

They are thinking about themselves, rather than what he needs for the rest of his life. Thats a huge shame

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GreenTulips · 09/02/2020 15:08

I would have him tested for dyslexia as well.

Look it up.

IceBearRocks · 09/02/2020 15:09

We've had the same issues....just let them ride!
Wait out until secondary when it all changes. My DS now uses an iPad and can photograph the board rather than write a load on nonsense no one will understand. He has high functioning Autism and hypermobility.
In terms of SATS he "luckily" broke his arm the week before and had a scribe ....he got 110 or 115... just because of the scribe !

lizzzyyliveson · 09/02/2020 15:19

You could make a complaint, but honestly, they sound like they don't actually know what to do to help him.

If you are home schooling him, what about keeping him home on the mornings so he misses their useless maths and English lessons but is there in the afternoon for science and humanities?

potatochipsandcheese · 09/02/2020 15:33

@lizzyliveson

I dont see the point in making a complaint. This hasnt been the only problem we've had with them, even this month! We've had huge problems with our youngest being attacked by other boys and told 'boys will be boys' and other outdated nonsense. I have suggested again and again that the entire school be taught about consent in age appropriate ways and that 'boys will be boys' is prehaps not the sort of thing the head of a primary school should be saying. I am continually put off.

The thing that most rings true to me here, is that they're not going to bother teaching a child who isn't going to achieve more than a 'level 3' in literacy regardless of content if they're not working in cursive. That explains perfectly why the school are quite happy to just allow him to flounder and not give him any extra support for life. Hes not going to write in cursive, so whats the point in preparing him for the other things?

He mostly does guided reading and RE in the afternoons. I keep him in full time on Tuesdays and Wednesdays as he does PE and science on those days and thats important.

I've been pulling him out on Monday and Thursday afternoons for the whole afternoon session and its worked really well. His writing is totally legible now (not everything is the right shape and size but thats going to happen more and more with directed study) and his literacy skills are improving too. His dad is doing maths with him a few times a week, we do after school stuff on certain days too.

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potatochipsandcheese · 09/02/2020 15:37

@IceBearRocks - I would let them ride if I thought he would cope as well in a comprehensive as he will in the grammar but, because he is exceptionally gifted in maths, very quick to learn and competent and interested in science and humanities, i really think he is going to get on much better at the grammar.

So I'm more than happy to let it slide when it comes to not letting loose on the school (despite wanting to knock their bloody heads together) But I am going to use my time and privilege to have time in the day to pull him out and teach him in a way that nourishes him and means he can fulfill his potential in a grammar

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GingerFoxInAT0phat · 09/02/2020 15:41

My son is in year 5 and had lovely hand writing in the first couple of years in school, but now he has to write in cursive it looks really scruffy. When I watched him write the other day he starts letters in random places before stopping and starting again somewhere even more strange.

It’s something I will be speaking to his teacher about as it seems he needs to go back to basics and learn where each letter starts and stops.

potatochipsandcheese · 09/02/2020 15:51

Yes he writes so bizarrely. Needs completely reverting to basics

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Leah2005 · 09/02/2020 15:58

Another one here to say have him tested for dyslexia/ dyspraxia. My brother is very intelligent but struggles to physically write. Constantly feeling not good enough is not great for mental health.

potatochipsandcheese · 09/02/2020 16:50

From what I’ve seen this week, if not forced to write in cursive, he learns quickly and enthusiastically.

He just hates being wrong

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LouReidDododo · 09/02/2020 17:41

Dyslexia isn’t a learning disability its just needing to be taught a different way. I’m really struggling to understand how he fell down the cracks till this point. I’d be furious at the school, it’s really not on.

potatochipsandcheese · 09/02/2020 17:51

@loureid

I am livid... it’s not just this, there have been other issues with the school too.

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mastertomsmum · 09/02/2020 18:11

Your experiences do sound a bit like ours. My DS is borderline dyspraxic. Some people thought we were bonkers switching in Yr5 but just changing schools to somewhere with better pastoral care and support has been transformative. Hope it works out for you.

LouReidDododo · 09/02/2020 18:24

Can you not change schools sounds like your having a nightmare. Why don’t you pay for a tutor to come in and assess him . They can tell you specifically what he needs

potatochipsandcheese · 09/02/2020 18:28

I’m flexi schooling him now, I think changin school would be very difficult and cause a lot of worry for him.

I’m sure they will eventually pull me up on why I’m taking him out of school a few times a week.

And it’s going to be very hard to stay calm. My youngest DS has been held down and battered by the same gang of children in the last year - the school say it’s ‘rough play’ and ‘boys will be boys’

I want to shake em

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SofiaAmes · 09/02/2020 18:36

My ds struggled with handwriting and particularly cursive. I started him typing in Kindergarten and by 2nd grade he was typing all his assignments. I finally had testing done privately because the school wouldn't acknowledge that there was anything amiss. The testing showed a genius IQ and some significant learning differences that needed accommodations. My ds also got pretty badly bullied and it was ignored by the school. My biggest regret was not removing him from the school immediately and home schooling him until I could find an appropriate replacement. My ds never did regain a love for school even once we got him into a good learning environment some years later.

Just take your ds's (since it sounds like more than one child is suffering at the school....I had the same issue) out, get him tested and into an appropriate learning environment.

potatochipsandcheese · 09/02/2020 18:43

@sofia

Full homeschooling isn’t an option at the moment. Mostly because it’s not what the kids want

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GreenTulips · 09/02/2020 19:00

I know you said you went i it school but they won’t take you seriously unless it’s in writing. You need a copy of the complaints procedure and refer to it requesting a deadline and a review -

reefedsail · 09/02/2020 19:01

So little of the Primary curriculum is based on writing at length. Where do the school say he is with respect to age related expectations in reading and SPaG?

Have you asked for him to be allowed to work on a laptop when writing at length is required? Schools are allowed to assess typed work when making judgements for Y6, there is no requirement for it to be handwritten.

How is your DS's emotional literacy? He sounds quite behind in that regard.

LouReidDododo · 09/02/2020 19:03

I’m sure they will eventually pull me up on why I’m taking him out of school a few times a week

Have you not discussed you taking him out? Will they not fine you? If you discussed properly they may give you material to do

reefedsail · 09/02/2020 19:04

No matter how good the content is, he wont score above Level 3 without cursive so the teacher is checking out of working on improving the content of his writing.

lizzzyyliveson which rock have you been under? Levels went in 2014.

reefedsail · 09/02/2020 19:14

@potatochipsandcheese I just want you to be aware that there is actually no need to physically write by hand at all for SATS.

ANY child is allowed to type the answers into a word document and ANY can have their papers fully or part scribed for them- as long as that is regular classroom practice for that child. For the writing judgement, typed work is perfectly acceptable.

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