Can't get any school tours. What to do?

[backtothegrindstone]

We're hoping to move to a new area, and have two kids who are already in school so would be looking for mid-year places for them both. We are currently looking for houses, and knowing that all the schools have smallish catchment areas, I have tried to get tours for the schools so that we can use this as a way of helping to choose houses depending on whether we get into the catchment. However, only one school has been able to offer me a tour. The other two schools have just said 'we have no tours at the moment. We'll get back to you when we have some planned'. When I tried to argue that we hope to move in the next 2-3 months so it was quite pressing (our house is under offer already so we're pretty motivated to get something bought), they have just said 'we don't have time to show everyone around when they ask, we'll show you round when you have an address in the area'. In the main the attitude was just downright obstructive and unhelpful. I wasn't expecting the head or even a teacher to show me round, just a member of office staff. I feel like I can't make an informed choice on something that will massively impact my children's futures if I haven't even seen the schools that are available. The one I have seen was lovely, but has a tiny catchment area and already has 4 people on the waiting list in each class so I feel like I can't pin my hopes on it. What do I do?

In that case I would play safe and move as close to the four class entry school as statistically they would have places come available more regularly. What year groups are you looking at? When we move in September DD1 was 9th on the waiting list for her school in Yr4 (massive spike in birth rate in 2011!) but there were 2places available in Yr 2 for DD2, which has a lot lower birth rate. (DD1 then moved to top of waiting list, then gained a place on appeal)

I were also play safe and look at the larger intake school to increase chances of getting both children in, in a reasonable time frame.

But I would also be looking at catchment senior schools and distances from your preferred choice there.

@Aroundtheworldin80moves hmm, not sure about that. I REALLY don't want my tiny kids to go to mega-academy school with 990 kids and no ofsted, regardless of the likelihood of getting in. So far I'd say its at the bottom of our lost so really is the last resort (unless I manage to get a tour and it really impresses and suprises me). I'd rather move as close as possible to the lovely nurturing two form school that I've seen and loved so that we'll jump to the top of the waiting list to be honest. We need year 1 and 3 places.

Senior catchment isn't a big issue @MoreHairyThanScary. All the areas we're looking at are in the catchment for the local comp, and we have non geographic grammar schools round there which should be in sight as the kids are both pretty bright. Though would probably also consider private for secondary when we've had a chance to pay this new house off a bit.

Gah, wish you could edit. List, not lost!

what is it about the academy you dont like. We had a 3 form and a one form at the end of our road. 3 form good ofsted 1 form outstanding. Hated the 1 form loved the 3 form. By far being the best choice for my children (and 2 girls have moved from the 1 form to the 3 form). Both have friends across the classes and both have found it much more freeing than being stuck in a 1 form

@Quartz2208 It's too big. Some years have 5 classes, then they have a SEN unit and a nursery. It's massive. There's a big difference between a 3 form and a 5 form!

So why did you pick that area as having good schools if you hadn't been round any of them at the time you picked it? Did your children get to go round the one school that you have seen with you?

On the one hand you say that OFSTED is not your only concern as you want a well-rounded education, but on the other you complain that the large academy has no OFSTED yet - so you do put some faith into those ratings!

Has anything happened in your wider life that has caused you to think about this move, OP? Because if it is for the schools then as you already know they don't have spaces so it's not a quick fix there. I hope you can sort something out in the end.

Why would they waste time escorting people round the building during lesson time when there’s a large waiting list already?
You are very unlikely to get an in year place when you’re way down the waiting list, let’s be realistic.

So you've seen one school already and don't sound as if you like the academy, so really you've only got one school to see.

Turn up at pick up time, you should be able to access the playground and then you can see what the other children and parents are like. Look through a few windows. If anyone asks you're there to collect "Ellen Franklin" in Year 1 - maybe you went to the wrong school?

I had a to go through a similar rigmarole with private schools in North London as many of them wouldn't let you tour until you'd put down a £100 deposit - which was not happening.

There is loads of movement in London schools. DS's 1/2 form entry class had 2 or 3 leave in the first year, due to people relocating.

@ChicCroissant we didn't pick the area for the schools specifically, we are moving for several reasons - partly work and others that I'm really not going to go into here, and then picked a neighbourhood that ticked as many of the boxes on our wishlist as we could find, one of which was schools, other very crucial ones were the transport links for work, houses available in our price range, and then parks, gyms, sports facilities, proximity to the countryside, distance to friends....and other less tangible things like the feel of the area. We knew it was a good school district, one of the best in the country in fact, but that's not the same as liking an individual school which personally I find hard to tell until I visit.

I feel you're trying to pick me to pieces to be honest. If you want the full explaination, then Ofsted results aren't that important to me if I'm looking at the difference between an Good and and Outstanding school - I've found a lot of good schools aren't outstanding because they refuse to hothouse children to perform for tests and inspections. But they are meaningful if a school becomes a 'needs improvement' or has safeguarding issues, so they do also have some bearing as its hard to tell if a school I can't visit is ok or awful without some sort of benchmarking.

We aren't taking the kids to visit any schools. They are still very little and it will all be completely meaningless (and potentially stressful and confusing) to them at this stage.

@underneaththeash thanks, that's a great idea. Might be tricky though as I'll be picking up my own kids at that time, but maybe if I can arrange some after school care.

The vast majority of good schools certainly do take Sats seriously. You are deluded if you think they don’t. I have been a governor for years and teachers work their socks off at Good schools to ensure children do as well as possible. Results are not the only determining factor of an Outstanding school but I would always choose a school that’s best for DC.

Size can have huge advantages. Lots more going on and often better specialist teachers. Our local infants is now 4 form entry. No one in their right mind would swerve it due to that. It’s a very good school. The junior school is on the campus. Children find friends in their class and in their cohort. There is no evidence that children do not thrive in well run larger schools.

However I would ask why is the school an academy? Was it previously RI or worse with another name? I would look at newsletters and the web site to see what the school offers and the ethos of it. What feel do you get from their own information? Your DC will have to go somewhere. You can apply in advance of moving if a school has places. They cannot keep places open. Look at your local authority web site to see what schools do have places. Their admissions team could also give you advice.

Thanks. I understand the in-year admissions system pretty well as we moved once two 1/2 years ago so have done it before. I also work with (but not in) schools a lot as I'm an Child psychologist (research, not clinical). I don't like large schools for primary, regardless what others think. Everyone has to choose what they think is best for their child but the science suggests children's brains just aren't ready for the massive overstimulation and general lack of attachment that comes with such large cohorts at such young ages. Whilst there may be other advantages it isn't the way I wish to raise my children as I don't feel it contributes to emotional robustness in the long term. Others may disagree but I want a smaller school for my kids.

@backtothegrindstone You've just spoken through truth about large schools primary schools and large class sizes that no one wants to hear. It's the unmeasurable "well-being" part of early childhood that is so hard to measure and yet do crucial to development. Well done for trying to find the right fit for you. I think however you might be better suited to a pre-prep and then go state in year 3 once your kids are bit older.

I don’t know what you are really asking here, you have already made up your mind. You are adamant that you want a small school and only one of the three options is a small school. So there’s your answer - move close to that one.

No schools would let us visit until we had an address in the city when we moved, then only if they had spaces! Schools are busy and don't have time for pushy parents trying to game the admissions system by buying close to popular schools who already have waiting lists

@ TooleyVanDooley two of the schools are two form entry actually so I’m interested in them both, and one of them won’t show me round. I was asking for some ideas how to get in the door if I can’t get a formal tour. I’ve actually managed to connect with a mum there via a local Facebook group who’s going to take me in at pickup one day, which someone suggested on here, so it’s been a useful exercise.

Wow @ okiedokieme, I hadn’t realised that by wanting to see the schools my kids might go to I was being pushy. I thought I was just being conscientious, sensible and thorough. I’ll just send them out to play in traffic too and leave scissors in their beds. And all the schools have waiting lists so I’m not even sure what you’d point is.

Annoyingly @ColumbaPalumbus my eldest is already in year three so we’ve missed pre-prep, and the nearest private school isn’t close enough to be able to split them up as wouldn’t be able to get to both in time for drop and pickup. None of the state schools have a year 3 entry either so I think it’s either private all the way or state all the way. It’d be a financial stretch to be honest so we’d only really consider it if we can’t get school places after a few months. But thank you for being so kind in your comments

Who have you spoken to at the schools whilst trying to arrange tours op? I wonder if it might be worth asking to speak to the head/deputy rather than asking the receptionist.

I’m sure part of the problem will be that they are over subscribed. My own dc’s school has a waiting list for every year group; you could literally wait years for a space, which would make a tour at this point pretty pointless.

Moving is no guarantee you'll ever be offered a space so really that shouldn't be your main criteria at all. What if you had a viewing of the small school, loved it and bought the house next door. Then spent the next four years driving back to the old school because no-one left?

Being pragmatic, the larger school is more likely to have a vacancy so move near it. Larger potential friendship groups for your kids too....

I don't think it'll be an issue in London @Titchy. School places open up all the time, its not that uncommon for people to move on here. We've already ruled out the large school. I'm literally just looking for ideas how to get a tour of the other one now.

That's a good idea @LeekMunchingSheepShagger. Will try that. Though the receptionist seems to be a bit of a dragon, so not sure I hold out much home she'll put me through

Well if places open up all the time it won't matter where you live will it? You prefer the two form entry one you've seen. Move there. Put your kids on the waiting list for the four form one.

@titchy, but it will matter. Because if we're the closest to whichever school we'll potentially be moved to the top of the list when places open up, but if we're not, then we could be constantly pushed down the list by people who move closer. We may never get to the top of the list. I know there are already 4 on the list of each school so if that's what it's regularly like, we don't want to be the bottom of 4, we want to be the top. Therefore I need to choose which I prefer. So I need to see them both, which is why I'm asking for ideas about how to get inside the school. I'm really not looking for advice on which school to choose. I can make that choice myself once I see them both.

If the four on the waiting list are for different year groups - likely, it won't matter. Or are the four on the waiting list above you for each child's year group? Have you thought about what you'd do in the very likely scenario that one is offered a place and the other isn't?