Can't get any school tours. What to do?

[backtothegrindstone]

We're hoping to move to a new area, and have two kids who are already in school so would be looking for mid-year places for them both. We are currently looking for houses, and knowing that all the schools have smallish catchment areas, I have tried to get tours for the schools so that we can use this as a way of helping to choose houses depending on whether we get into the catchment. However, only one school has been able to offer me a tour. The other two schools have just said 'we have no tours at the moment. We'll get back to you when we have some planned'. When I tried to argue that we hope to move in the next 2-3 months so it was quite pressing (our house is under offer already so we're pretty motivated to get something bought), they have just said 'we don't have time to show everyone around when they ask, we'll show you round when you have an address in the area'. In the main the attitude was just downright obstructive and unhelpful. I wasn't expecting the head or even a teacher to show me round, just a member of office staff. I feel like I can't make an informed choice on something that will massively impact my children's futures if I haven't even seen the schools that are available. The one I have seen was lovely, but has a tiny catchment area and already has 4 people on the waiting list in each class so I feel like I can't pin my hopes on it. What do I do?

It's not like that in London. You can sometimes live right by a school and still not get in as they have too many siblings etc and then get allocated a school miles away.

'Just a member of office staff'....... they have been cut back massively. In some schools using office staff for tours would mean no one to answer the phone, arrange school dinners, man the reception desk and so forth. And then the existing parents will get upset and start complaining.

We had this in london. Realistically you're going to be offered a place. Once you have an offer they will show you around but not likely until then. They may have some sort of Easter fete that you could go to and get a fairly good feel for the school.

I'm not unsympathetic actually but if you are a HT of an oversubscribed school with a budget deficit you put your resources where they're most needed. Budget situations vary a lot so that's why you'll get different responses at different schools.

The length of the waiting list is immaterial- you could go in at first place, 10th, 100th etc depending on how well you meet the requirements. You could even ask to go on it from your present address.

In Year admissions area bit of a gamble- if you move long distance, you have to rely on websites, Ofsted etc. You can move next door to a Requires Improvement school, but it could have 3 siblings on the waiting list and you get offered an Outstanding school a mile away.

How would schools manage if they had to facilitate every visit? It would be very disruptive. You’re going to have to go on Ofsted reports, check the schools website. Look for info of % of pupils on free school meals etc. You’re only going to get a snapshot in a tour anyway.

@lalafafa I would imagine that they run an open tour once a month like the school I visited today. And as I've already said, it's a new academy and hasn't been inspected yet, and the last ofsted on the school it replaced was in 2012 so not exactly up to date. I can't begin to imagine what a primary school with 990 pupils would be like from reading anything anyway, I really need to see it. I can't imagine a school that size can't spare resource to run a tour once a month. They must have tons of mid year movement.

Do any of the schools actually have places now?

That would affect how I’d feel about the “no tours” thing.

If they’re massively oversubscribed with big waiting lists, then I can understand them not wanting to spare the time for a tour - especially when you’ve not moved to the area yet.
If they do have spaces, then a refusal to give a tour would be off putting.

We didn’t have any problems getting school tours when we moved schools mid-year, but then, we were only talking to schools that we knew had spaces for our DC at that time.

Why not pop into the playground at pick uptime?

I'm a bit confused - why are you worried about catchment areas if you will applying mid-year? I though in-year admissions meant that you applied and either there was a space (which they have to give you even if you're 20 miles away) or there's not (and you will be offered the closest school with a place). If they don't have a space for your child they would be wasting everybody's time to show you around. Most schools aren't really geared up for tours at this time of year because the normal admissions window closed last month.
You can't move to an area on the basis of liking a school which doesn't have room for your children. What would you do if nobody leaves and a space doesn't come up?

Check if the school you’re Interested in has a FB page, ours advertisers all school events, cake sales, jumble sales etc then you can pop along.

I wasn't expecting the head or even a teacher to show me round, just a member of office staff.

Our head meets parents individually and shows them around the school. This is a large (600+) primary that is always oversubscribed and rated outstanding. She does this throughout the year.

I would start by phoning the local authority and finding out which schools have spaces for your DC as a starting point. You can also ask about movement and waiting lists. Schools that have spaces are likely to give you time to look round as they’ll want to fill their spaces. Schools that are full with waiting lists aren’t likely to let you, why would they? It’s outside the admission window and there is little point looking round if there aren’t any places. Just takes up time and resources.

I would actually look at secondaries and make sure you are in catchment and/or feeder primary depending on the admission criteria for your preferred secondary especially as you seemed to indicate you’d leave them at their current school until places opened up at a primary you wanted.

We didnt have the possibility of continuing with the old school when we moved.
I asked the council which schools in X town had a pair of spaces in Y3 and Y5. There was only one school with spaces, so yes, I accepted it without walking through the doors. The first time I entered the school was to hand in paperwork. The second time was 3 days later taking the kids for their first day.

Catchment areas dont mean anything if you are looking for mid year spaces. You need to know where the spaces are.

It is always tricky moving mid-year, it really cuts down your options - however, you have already said that you won't move them from their current school! I can also see the School's point about you having an address in the area before showing you round, as it will depend where your house is - once you are near the point of exchange you'll probably find (if they have spaces) that they are more amenable.

Have you actually found any school with spaces yet?

I think its a little what comes first the chicken or the egg. You dont want to move until you know which schools have places and where you would be on the waiting list

Have you tried the Local Authority to determine if there are places or not?

What ages are your children Infants Junior or Secondary?

'we don't have time to show everyone around when they ask, we'll show you round when you have an address in the area'.

Which is entirely fair enough

I'd ring the LEA and ask where has places, that - for now - will tell you your choices, such as they are. I bet they will show you round.

But, from my experience, primary schools are much of a muchness, religion aside.

London? Oh all bets are off then.

I think maybe i've not explained the situation well really. None of the schools in the area we plan to move to have places. All have waiting lists. However, whilst its true that the 'catchment' isnt relevant, the waiting list places are offered in order of admissions criteria, one of which (after the usual looked after, siblings etc) which is proximity for all of them. We have a few houses we would be happy buying but the one we choose would be based on the proximity to the school we want to get to the top of the waiting list for. The closer we are, the more likely we are to jump to the top of the wait list. Therefore it really enormously helps to know which school we prefer.

We have the option to keep commuting the kids to their current school but its 35 minutes each way in good traffic so wouldn't be a good option long term. But I'd rather do that than accept any random school place going in the entire borough.

Do you know anybody with children at the schools? You could ask them whether there any assemblies or events planned and go along with them.

TBH I know it isn't what you want to hear but if the school doesn't have places, and has waiting lists, why should they show you around?

I imagine they have all just done a term of showing people round for reception places.

...or you could be very sneaky and pretend that you are looking for reception yourself (though past the deadline).

I think if you really want to see inside a school you can be a bit creative... be near the gates at drop off/pick up times [how happy are the families coming in/going out???] or trawl their websites (most of them will have newsletters or class pages you can look at) or check if any of them are having events which are open to the public (such as an Easter Fair [Fayre?] or similar and go along.

However, I'm with a lot of PPs. I work at more than 1 primary, and am often asked to show perspective parents around. I view it as a MASSIVE pain. You get a LOT of perspective parents if the school's got a decent OFSTED rating or a good reputation locally. It's never as simple as just a tour... they've always got all these questions based on their own thoughts about things. So:
What's your homework policy?
What clubs do you have available?
How do you discipline children?
What trips does the school offer?
What do you do for gifted/talented?
Or unashamedly niche....
What music is there available?
What languages are spoken?
etc.
It's NEVER just an "the answer is X" question. No, cue some long debate from the parent who doesn't think there's enough homework/doesn't think there should be homework/wants a detailed answer on how the homework is marked/has VIEWS on homework they feel they need to share.
Ad infinitum, on whatever the question is they've originally asked (and, sometimes, several of the above)
And I try, I REALLY try to be helpful and friendly and polite and give them the level of detail they want to know ("but what if it's PE outside and it's RAINING????"), but ffs... they're probably going to pick the school with the highest rating by OFSTED anyway (they usually do), and - honestly - I don't care. I'd rather give my time and energy to the parents of the families who actually DO attend the school and, therefore, the ones who these theoretical issues actually DO affect.

And from what you say, you need to pick a school (or 3 schools) and cross everything and hope there's a place. But given that you've already suggested they might go private, then what do the tours matter anyway?

I agree with the PP who said you'd be wiser to look more at secondaries.

And, incidentally, I REALLY admire the secondary schools around here... they'll offer an open day or two in the run up to the admissions process, and they won't talk to ANYONE unless the child is offered a place. Already got sibs at the school? Fine, come back and talk to us after the beginning of March ONCE YOU'VE BEEN OFFERED A PLACE! Until then...

I get it @movingbrisklyon. Private is an absolute last resort if we are stuck without a place after about 6 months. It’d definitely not the preferred option and would be financially difficult. It also defeats the aim of our move which really is about putting our kids back in a local community where they can walk to school and have local friends. So it’s absolutely of priority to be at a ‘local’ school for us. And actually I wouldn’t necessarily choose the one with the outstanding ofsted. I’m a great believer in whole child education and I’m not convinced an ‘outstanding’ school is necessarily a good thing.

Secondary is a long way off for us whilst I’ll still have a lot of primary years ahead as I have a baby too, so at present that’s really more of a priority. They have grammar schools here which have no catchments so location not necessarily the same issue. Though all the houses would be in the right catchment for the local comprehensive anyway.

OP - I can't see how your plan is going to work.
You say you are planning to drive your DC back to their old school until places come up at your preferred school (once you've worked out what that is). But it's very unlikely that 2 places will come up at the same time, so you'd then be stuck with driving 1 back to the 35 minutes away school, and having 1 in a different close by school. For an indefinite length of time.
The other question you need to be asking is how often spaces actually come up. I've known parent who are high on waiting lists who never get places at their preferred school (and of course waiting list places move up as well as down).

@RedskyAtnight we can deal with that reasonably easily by using breakfast/after school provisions or a childminder so I don't see that as a particular hurdle. You're right, its likely that it will happen that way, but once one gets in, the other gets to the top of the waiting list so its also to some degree advantageous. There's never any certainty about places of course, but we're moving to a relatively urban area on the outskirts of London. London schools aren't like anywhere else as most people aren't really 'from' there so they have high levels of mobility. People either move out of London to the countryside or move back home etc all the time. There's no guarantees but equally if we move as close to the preferred school as possible to get as near to the top of the waiting list as we can, we can certainly make it easier.