Ds can’t/ won’t read

[Howmanysleepsnow]

Ds is 6 (year 2 but August born) and can’t read. He’s on stage 3 books (Oxford) and sounds out words but often still can’t recognise them. He’s very reluctant to read at home and often refuses as he “can’t do it”. He won’t even try to sound out words on signs/ in games anymore. His hearing is ok, according to the screening, but he can’t tell the difference between end and start sounds in words day to day (eg 14 and 40). He had speech therapy for the frequent mispronunciation of start/ end sounds and was able to recognise and replicate in sessions. He’s discharged now: partly due to improvement, partly because he hated it and stopped trying/ engaging.
How do I help him when he won’t try at home? Apparently he tries hard in school and is a hard worker and really conscientious, but at home he refuses. I have a meeting with his teacher next week at my request. What do I ask for? He already gets extra small group support.

I would go for a an Ed Pysch. appointment if you can, it sounds like there might be an underlying issue.

"Phonics is a shit way to teach reading anyway and I have no idea why it has become so popular." Because the evidence disproves your opinion ...phonics is necessary for reading. For a lucky few they are able to intuit and seem to learn to read quickly and effortlessly without direct instruction but for the majority explicit teaching is necessary.

OP from your description it certainly appears as if your child has some sort of phonological difficulty (this can result in dyslexia) or it may be something more complex. Only a thorough assessment will tell you the nature of your child's difficulties and how best to support him. Has the school suggested Educational Psychologist involvement?

We ended up with a brilliant reader and at eighteen he has a cracking vocabulary way ahead of his friendship group.

But at the age of 5/6 he was a refuser, my husband is deaf so we always have subtitles on the TV they really helped, we had a Chinese takeaway once a month and asked him what he wanted, he told us we wrote it out on scrap he found it on the menu and then stuck it on the list.

Ditto any treats he asked for at Sainsbury's would be entertained if he made a decent attempt at putting it on the list.

Can't remember how long it took (not long) and one day a voice came from the back of the car, in traffic, what is a Guild....ford.

Reader I nearly shot into stationary the car in front of me.

"large part of learning to read English is learning to sight-read ..... especially ones with logical brains who hate learning by rote."
What contradictory nonsense ...learning to read sight words while hating learning by rote
The logic of phonics appeals to those with logical minds and benefits all while harming none.

Search on amazon for a visual tracker, they cost about £20 and are worth a try, it worked wonders here and now we'd never know it was an issue. It's no longer needed and she can read anything she wants.

Drspouse and Norestformrz, I agree that phonics is essential. It works beautifylly with hundreds of regularly spelt words like 'a fat cat sat. It is the best way to teach the basics. But phonics works less well with the likes of 'one, two, four'. In England phonics has been mandatory for over a decade now, but acc to the reading support charity Coram Beanstalk, ca 170,000 kids still struggle with reading by the end of primary school. Phonics would work much better, if English did not have so many words with irregular spellings, but it has several thousand of them. That's just a fact.

I think you don't understand phonics, gran.
"Two" is the only English word spelled like that.
"Four" is spelled like "pour, your, course" and several other words.
There are very very few unique words in English.

I mean this is a problem is clearly deeper than phonics or sights words. The argument about irregular words making sight words important isn't relevant when you take into account that he can't pronounce words correctly as a far deeper words.

Phonics works for all words or you wouldn't be able to say them. Some words have unusual spellings which makes English more complex than other languages which is why the relationship between sounds and spellings need to be explicitly taught not left to chance.
Im not sure how familiar you are with the Simple View of Reading ...being able to accurately read the ones is one strand and language comprehension is the other. When a child can accurately read the words and has good understanding of language (and general knowledge) then they are good readers.
Tests at the end of primary have focused on vocabulary knowledge in recent years and disadvantage those children with poor language skills.

Why the biscuit @Norestformrz ?

Because spending any money on a visual tracker fir a child struggling to hear the sounds in words is a total waste

The evidence shows that phonics has a very useful place in teaching children to read (although as we know most children will learn fine whichever sensible method you use). However there is no evidence to illustrate that phonics should be used exclusively short words like "was" , "said", "the"etc are used so frequently that most kids will learn to recognise them and will be very familiar with them without using much phonetic knowledge.

Although I agree this sounds like an issue beyond the method he's been taught to read - does he seem otherwise bright? Decent Vocabulary? I'd definitely have him assessed if possible so you can find exactly what the issue is.

@Friedspamfritters I think he’s bright. He’s got a good spoken vocabulary (minus the speech issues), good reasoning, is able to understand concepts well, is good at maths. School say he’s really hardworking, bright and conscientious, and that they wish they had a class full of him (!)
At last parents evening they weren’t concerned and said they expected him to catch up by the end of year 2, but he can’t even read his homework so I’m not sure how he manages in class.
He’s the youngest of 4 and none of them have been early readers (and dd is now being assessed for dyslexia aged 12), but the others it was a case of it just needing time to “click”. I suspect it’s something more with him given the struggle with hearing/ pronouncing start/ end sounds. I will definitely be asking about dyslexia assessment and Ed Psych referral.

Howmanysleepsnow can he hear the word in you say the sounds?

@drspouse

So how did millions of children learn to read when phonics wasn't used? That being said, teaching phonics does have a positive impact on most children, but conversely for those who have APD or dyslexia, it's very little use.

Because spending any money on a visual tracker fir a child struggling to hear the sounds in words is a total waste

Then maybe I shouldn't bother sharing what helped my own child with similar problems. Since when are you the self appointed thread police ?

It sounds like he has poor phonological awareness skills, very common (about 1 in 4 children struggle), and easy to address. The speech sound difficulties would also point to this. It might be a symptom of something more, but equally might not.
He needs lots of practice in segmenting and blending words orally before he can do it corresponding to print.

how did millions of children learn to read when phonics wasn't used?
Some children guess it on their own. Not work l enough though.

Some children guess it on their own. Not work l enough though.

????

You might be good at spelling, but your grammar is shocking!

@Norestformrz He can sometimes, but more often he still can’t.
I’ve just bribed him to do a (probably hugely unreliable!) online dyslexia screening. He did better on the “nonsense words” (76%) than the real words (52%). I think when he realised it was real words he panicked and tried to guess at any word containing one of the sounds he recognised. I’m not sure what that means, if anything.
I also bribed him to do an online phonological screening. It involved taking away sounds eg “say sunshine. Now say it again without the sun. Say coat. Now say it without the c.” He did ok, scored as expected at the end of his school year which surprised me, although I imagine there’s much more to phonological skills than this!

Phone combined with child wanting something!
"Not enough though".

"So how did millions of children learn to read when phonics wasn't used? " the truth is phonics has been the method of reading instruction for centuries.
In the 1980s Smith and Goodman put forward a (untried) theory that reading developed naturally like speaking and schools embraced the idea resulting in millions left to flounder if they weren't able to work out the relationship between spoken and written words.

although I imagine there’s much more to phonological skills than this!
Not much more!
We need to know if he can orally segment and blend. At work we would assess this by putting some pictures out and asking the child to find the sh-ee-p, or the b-oa-t and seeing if they can put the sounds together to make the word. You could do it at home by making a game e.g. you have ten seconds to get me the s-oa-p, or a p-e-n etc.