Experiences of faith-based education

[UbercornsGoggles]

Our daughter is due to go to school (reception) in September and we need to decide where to apply to very soon.

Our local small village school is CofE and very strongly promotes Christianity. My husband and I were both raised in Christian families (church every week, parents involved in running of local church etc) but as young adults we both turned away from religion and are now very strongly atheist in our beliefs.

The local school is great in a lot of ways (happy children, small classes, great after school clubs, no bullying etc), and the most convenient choice from a logistical point of view, but we visited today and were quite shocked by how much visual religious information was on the walls. Crosses everywhere, God mentioned everywhere. We asked about RE and it's taught once a week, and focuses on other faiths as well as Christianity, put it still felt very heavy on the Christianity/religion side of things. They do prayers 3 times a day.

We're now considering applying to other non-faith schools but this would entail adding 45 minutes to the daily commute and a drive for our daughter every day. We feel that making friends in our local small village community is important for her and we're really stuck now on what to do.

Anyone else had a similar experience and what did you do?

I'd say stick with the local school. Your don't want to make work for yourselves with a longer commute.

Yes, they may be fairly full on but at the end of the day the majority of children in these schools will not be practising Christians. If little one comes home with ideas you don't agree with, you can always explain your beliefs to them. You won't change the school though, so don't go in expecting to be able to withdraw her from anything.

so don't go in expecting to be able to withdraw her from anything.

Why not, since the law allows parents to do precisely that, if they wish to?
Schools are obliged to teach RE, but are also required to inform parents of their right to withdraw their children from this and from acts of worship.
www.gov.uk/national-curriculum/other-compulsory-subjects
www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/281929/Collective_worship_in_schools.pdf

Firstly, my experience of faith based schools is that the religious element permeates through everything they do so it would be hard to even work out what you wanted to remove them from.
Secondly, if you really feel strongly enough that you are likely to want to remove them from religious elements then maybe you will need to look further afield. How would DD feel about being the only child not doing the nativity, the church service, the daily acts of worship?

Its not really about what you legally can do but more about what is practical and the effect such withdrawal would have on DD. I'm also a little unsure how the law works with regard to academies and faith based schools. It may be worth asking the head to clarify if you did think you may at times want to go down this route.

Firstly, my experience of faith based schools is that the religious element permeates through everything they do so it would be hard to even work out what you wanted to remove them from.
I’d second this comment. We are Christians, and DC have been to 2 faith schools. I have been very (pleasantly) surprised at how much the school revolves around faith and the church. I’ve always thought that if you weren’t at least sympathetic to Christianity you would really struggle with the amount of it your child gets taught.

Really feel for you OP and this is why faith based schools are so wrong as you should not be forced into this choice .

I’d be inclined to stick with the local school simply for logistics and just hope that I could continue to bring my child up with my beliefs despite what school were telling her.

It’s very tough though.

Both my children went to a faith-school. Neither of us are at all religious. In fact I was brought up in a strict Christian hone where I was forced to go to church most Sundays. I struggled with the decision for this reason. We didn't go down the go to church route but got one of a few spaces for locals. We did find the teaching a bit full on at some points. Think I complained about one particular Easter service.

They gave them a great education about different faiths and taught them how to think for themselves. Both children started off believing in God. Ds decided pretty quickly he didn't and DD believed until about year 5 but now is a firm non-believer. Have had many interesting discussions with them over the years. Never tried to sway them, just told them our beliefs.

Also, Both children now at secondary and have been told they are great at RE! Great discussion and arguing they views. They also miss their kind and caring school and teachers!

My younger two have been to a Christian C of E school. DS2 from yr3, DD from reception.

DD is devout, she quotes the bible, is a member of the school Ethos group, does regular readings in the church at school services.

Whilst not Christian myself I think there are advantages from learning through what is effectively social story telling. For DD the moral guidance and thought provoking stories have been great. They are conversation starters. She talks about them at home and forms her own opinions (which are subject to change). We had a very interesting conversation about God being like Father Christmas the other day. Whilst she enjoys being miss devout at school, she's not been brainwashed just guided by the bits she chooses.

We have never prayed as a family but prayer in class is more like a few moments where all the children go quiet, calm down/ pause and the teacher/ TA will say a little relevant almost reflection like 'let us be grateful for all those around us that make our environment a nicer place by picking up after themselves etc.' It acts as a little moral reminder without being a barked instruction and many children will then quickly act on the reflection.

DS2 was older when he joined the school and found the religious stuff a bit challenging. Used to find it a bit embarrassing. He had other issues at the school but now at secondary I don't think the religious bit did him harm.

I have heard tell of other schools were the c of e is not really noticeable and some where some teachers are ram it down your throat religious.

Have you visited the school and do you have a feel for it? If not just phone up and ask to have a look around ideally whilst the children are in class so you can see interactions.

Have you checked the SIAMS rating for the school?

I'm completely atheist but a few prayers wouldn't bother me depending on what they focused on. If it was just being kind to each other, taking care of the planet etc. I wouldn't ind and could explain to my child that those are philosophies that transcend religion. If there was a focus on quite conservative aspects of religion I'd feel very uncomfortable.

Id stick with the local school. Other schools can end up being quite christusn anyway! We changed from a church school to a normal one as we moved and the normal still had a vicar do assembly each week. The RE syllabus was heavily christian as thats what the guidelines said from the LA

I'd definitely stick with the local school. Your DC will be able to make their own decisions about their faith when they reach secondary age. At primary, this kind of thing won't brainwash them (as you know from your own personal experiences) and it simply isn't worth the hassle of the longer trip to school, friends living miles away etc.

I'm in the position that my eldest was educated by the church and my youngest is being educated by the state so to speak. My youngest spouts more religious things than my eldest ever did. I think my eldest overdid the praying at school so shunned such things at home.

Thanks everyone for your replies, it's been helpful to hear of other people's experiences and perspectives.

When we visited yesterday we expected there to be a certain amount of religious references, but we were taken aback by the amount. It was about 60% of things on the wall. They do prayers 3 times a day (all reference God or Jesus), 10 minutes of Christian praise daily, plus once a week they have a further Christian teaching element with the Minister or in the next door church. Plus RE once a week (which does include learning about other faiths).

Picking up on PPs, we wouldn't ask for our daughter to be taken out of anything with religious content because we wouldn't want her to feel different to the other children. We also don't think it would be practical given the amount of faith-based content every day.

When we witnessed a maths class yesterday a screen in the background was left on with information about the holy trinity. We're not sure if this was being used in the maths class, but were surprised it would be left on. Our fears really come down to whether our daughter would end up being somewhat brainwashed through those levels of exposure, even if we are giving her a different narrative at home. I grew up being a bit superior and looking down on people who weren't of my faith because of my parents' religious influence - I wouldn't choose that for my daughter.

But I don't want my commute made any longer than it currently is, and I'd love my daughter to be taught locally and in small classes. It's very hard to know what to do, but thank you all for your helpful comments.

I know my local c of e junior school has become much more “in your face” religious in the last few years with a new Head. Prayers 3 times a day and lots of religious pictures. They do follow the Agreed RE syllabus but the ethos is putting many people off. Other schools are full. My DDs are no longer there but I would have hated this change. We had suitable light touch before and everyone was happy. It now appears the more religious in the school community wanted something else but they are a minority. This is why it’s wrong and it certainly isn’t inclusive. It’s C ofE exclusive with few other views taken into account.

However, op, as you were c of e educated and are now aethiests, you know better than most that brainwashing doesn’t work! Teach your DC about your views. Also the church isn’t superior. You can teach her this too. DC don’t have to believe everything at school and scepticism is healthy! In society we keep heading towards extremes and it isn’t necessary! It doesn’t suit the majority and why should local people feel alienated from their local school? It’s just plain wrong.

Let her go to the school and she can make up her own mind if she wants to become a Christian rather than have your views forced on her? Just a thought.

Hi OP I would agree with you I would be a bit wary - also because this type of school presumably doesn’t have that many kids of other faiths in it?
However reality is most people in the UK aren’t practising Christians so you won’t be alone
And there are lots of advantages to a local and good school
Give it a try but also be robust about your own views at home and make a proper effort to share these regularly
I am Jewish atheist and if in your shoes would still send my kid to the school but she would know about other options
(And sprucetree parenting is partly about helping your kid to make good choices rather than just letting them decide via the influence of school and peers! Kids then decide themselves in teens not at 6!

I went to very religious schools and sang in church choirs for 7 years. I have never believed. However, I emerged from school with an excellent knowledge of the history of Christianity, the Bible, religious music and the the beliefs of different Christian denominations. All of which have contributed to a much better understanding of historical events, literature, arts etc than I would otherwise have had.

All of my children went to a faith based primary. I'm not religious at all. The children quickly learn to think critically about the god business. None are believers now.
I'd say go with the local school.

My DCs’ school does prayers three times a day but they are songs which isn’t really the same. That said it is very religious and I wouldn’t imagine non religious people being happy with the amount of Christian teaching. It’s all the school plays, in the homework (sometimes writing prayers or about the days of creation etc) you can withdraw your child from collective worship but you can’t realistically withdraw them from exposure to Christianity. My view may be warped as it’s a London school and everyone that goes there is Christian (or you wouldn’t get in!). It’s one of the best schools in our borough and attracts parents from a long way away.

I would hate either choice, OP- so I’m not much help to you. I hope I would go for the extra commute, but the closeness and local friends would probably in real life trump my principles. But I think it is utterly outrageous that schools like this are funded by the taxpayer.

@SpruceTree as opposed to Christian views being “forced” on her. What a ridiculous thing to say. We have as much right to bring up our children as atheists as religious people have to bring theirs up within their faith!

Hi OP, for what it's worth I am a Muslim and went to a Christian school. My own children also go to a Christian school. My beliefs never changed or wavered and I felt as though learning about the values of Christianity reinforced my own beliefs about being a good, reaponsible person.

I don’t think anyone believes that going to a faith school is going to convert their children. They just don’t want them taking part in worship or being taught faith as fact. Which seems perfectly reasonable.

I’m struggling to see how your child is going to be harmed by knowing that God loves and values them, and wants them to be kind to other people. Calling that “brainwashing” just makes you sound paranoid!
Christianity shaped our entire western civilisation. Our values, our art, our literature, our history, everything. To deny your child knowledge of all that is cultural philistinism. For goodness sake, let them enjoy all the benefits of a friendly local school, a community of fellowship and excellent moral values. It’s a great antidote to materialist, secular selfishness.

Once again, the wilful misunderstanding that there is a difference between worship and knowledge.

Personally , I struggle to see how it would harm a child to know that they are part of an extraordinary world of nature and science and of a circle of life. And that we are all interconnected and can love and look after ourselves and each other without the need for a deity. That the world is wonderful in itself.