Experiences of faith-based education

[UbercornsGoggles]

Our daughter is due to go to school (reception) in September and we need to decide where to apply to very soon.

Our local small village school is CofE and very strongly promotes Christianity. My husband and I were both raised in Christian families (church every week, parents involved in running of local church etc) but as young adults we both turned away from religion and are now very strongly atheist in our beliefs.

The local school is great in a lot of ways (happy children, small classes, great after school clubs, no bullying etc), and the most convenient choice from a logistical point of view, but we visited today and were quite shocked by how much visual religious information was on the walls. Crosses everywhere, God mentioned everywhere. We asked about RE and it's taught once a week, and focuses on other faiths as well as Christianity, put it still felt very heavy on the Christianity/religion side of things. They do prayers 3 times a day.

We're now considering applying to other non-faith schools but this would entail adding 45 minutes to the daily commute and a drive for our daughter every day. We feel that making friends in our local small village community is important for her and we're really stuck now on what to do.

Anyone else had a similar experience and what did you do?

@Babdoc, “excellent moral values”? I don’t want my children being taught that homosexuality is wrong or that one religion is superior to another.

Not wanting my children to believe and pray to a god does not mean they don’t know about religion. They learn lots about all faiths both at home and school - we are not “philistines” for being atheists! We teach them about all faiths but also they can live with “excellent moral values” with no faith. Those of us who don’t believe in a reward in the afterlife can choose to live a good life simply because we feel it’s the good thing to do.

My children go to a C of E school and definitely aren't taught that homosexuality is wrong or that their religion is superior.
They are taught about ALL religions and regularly have interfaith weeks.

Education is also in the home and not just within a school and considering their older sister has a female partner they will never see homosexuality as wrong.

They do follow a religious syllabus and they do pray and have a school prayer but I like the whole ethos of the school and the values it instills in them. I feel they are being given the tools and knowledge to decide for themselves whether they choose to believe or not.

I also think the words of their school prayer are meaningful. Probably outing but it talks about the school being full of peace, love and contentment and ends "let us remember that as many hands build a home, so many hearts make a school"

@mynameisigglepiggle and my children are equally taught tolerance and kindness etc etc. What makes me so angry is this ludicrous but enduring idea that only religious schools can teach moral values when I know of many religious schools that teach very dubious (and narrow) ideas of what morality means.

There’s just no need to have faith schools in this day and age - it reduces choice and increases division.

I’d go with the local school. Easy journeys are so helpful when children are tiny.

My DS is at a Catholic school. They say a brief prayer three times a day and do RE once a week. They have also visited local churches. Most of the focus is on being a good and kind person, which I have no problem with at all. On the very rare occasions he presents something overtly Christian as fact, we simply have a ‘some people believe that, others believe x’ conversation. We have also read stories from other faiths at home. I did ask his teacher about the level of ‘religiousness’ and in fact in the whole class less than a 5th are regular church goers. Bible texts and hymns etc are a great source of both vocabulary and music, irrespective of the God bits

I taught science in a Catholic school. We were meant to teach some subjects, like Evolution, as theory, then put the opposing church theory, explain why they had to use scientific theory in the exam. Then finish the lesson in prayers. But not all Catholic schools are like that. Not all CofE schools are like that.

Be aware that non denominational schools can have a heavy Christian element as well.

My DD is at a church school as was my oldest before she went to secondary.

For me I like it - I find that the overwhelming message they teach is about kindness and thoughtfulness etc.

Was in identical situation to you

Really annoyed me that local school was so faith heavy and to avoid this we would have been faced with dragging small children around in the car for ages every day

Local friends and more time at home in the morning, playing in park after school etc all really more important so we went with the local and were just very clear with DC that religion is a choice that we didn’t subscribe to and neither did they have to. Focused on it being stories etc.

Same as you in that their Gparents are all church going too but kids are now teens and very scientific about religion and not interested at all.

I did grit my teeth at holiday homework always being to make a montage of a biblical scene etc

Faith based schools have no place in national provision imo

A huge percentage of schools are CofE where I live (they seem to be when you're rural!) and our primary is no exception. They do daily assemblies and say a grace-style rhyme before lunch, but certainly don't pray 3x a day. RE is about other religions as well as Christianity, as per the curriculum, they do have church events but they're focused on community and the fun and joy in the celebration at the time (harvest, easter etc), no vicar input except for a prayer at the end and an introduction. Christian morals permeate the school but that's a good thing! Kindness, compassion etc. The walls have a couple of displays - one about the church and the school's involvement, a discreet cross in each classroom with a copy of a prayer of some kind.

OP yours sounds much more religion-heavy. It's within our school (sometimes I think the displays are to keep the church happy) but it certainly isn't the focus. Community spirit is.

I work in a CofE school and my DC go to one. I've found them very similar to the non-faith schools I've taught in. The assembly is a little more Christian-focussed, eg more hymns and opens with "Peace be with you" but assemblies in all schools are supposed to be 'broadly Christian in nature". RE is taught once a week, like in every school I've taught in. There is more focus on Christianity but other faiths are also taught.

I taught in a Catholic school once which was much more religion-heavy but I wouldn't go on a 45-minute commute to avoid a CofE school as there really are only very small differences to other schools IME. Also, nicer for your daughter if her school friends are nearby.

This idea that it is only through Christianity that we can teach children about kindness and compassion is just so offensive.

The prayers in our school are 3 times a day they last about 30 seconds each. It's just part of the routine. They don't do it at home.

I've had two kids go right though the c of e school and both have learnt a good amount about other religions and beliefs and both have learnt some good morality lessons from the schools focus on the fruits of the spirit (which are things like kindness and generosity)

This idea that it is only through Christianity that we can teach children about kindness and compassion is just so offensive.

There are many ways to teach kids about these things but often the Christian focus in faith schools is based around them as they are considered fruits of the spirit.

It's a reassurance that actually much of the Christian teaching is just teaching about good values we want our kids to learn about rather than specifically centered around other aspects of religion.

It's great if you want your children to grow up as atheists.

Straw poll of everyone I know who went to a faith school ever.

Lots of DC do not want prayers 3 times a day. They do not want to look at crosses and pictures of the scriptures. Prayers should not be part of any routine outside of the collective act of worship. This is a problem. It is too much. It is not needed. Why is God being prayed to 3 times a day?

All schools can teach about good values. It is not just a Christian value. I am not unhappy about schools of a faith but that faith should be mindful of other people and respect them. Prayers 3 times day does not do that. It is exclusive and not welcoming to others. By all means have Harvest Festival, Christmas and Easter festivals but these should be inclusive. Non religious schools manage this.

Ah yes, I teach in a non denominational school and we teach intolerance and cruelty on a daily basis .

ALL schools teach about kindness and compassion - it’s what we do! It’s just that non faith based kindness and compassion doesn’t come with an unhealthy dose of guilt and judgment alongside it .

And yes I do see the irony in judging those who judge others. Forgive me .

Hi everyone,

I thought I perhaps owed you all an update. After all the responses, which were extremely helpful, we had pretty much decided that we would go with the local school and make things easier for us on the commute/transport concerns. But we also decided to go and look at 2 other potential schools, partly so if we decided in the future we wanted to change schools we woud know which one to try for.

Well, one minute in the door I'd changed my mind. I saw the School Values posted up in the foyer. Exacty the same list as at our local C of E school (kindness, empathy, honesty etc), only in the C of E school they were badged as Christian Values. And that for me is the crux of it - I don't want my daughter being told that normal human values, that are underpinned by our laws and society, belong to a faith that a minority of people follow. I don't want her thinking that being Christian is somehow better than not being Christian, or belonging to another faith, or not having a faith. And like some PPs, I don't think this stuff belongs in our schools.

So we're voting with our feet, or in this case, unfortunately, our car, and we're applying to both of the non-faith schools. And I will sleep easier, and drive more, and I will plant trees. And if we are allocated the local school I will appeal and petition my local council to look into the amount of faith-based teaching they are offering and I will ask them if they think it's right.

Ooh, that got a bit ranty! I guess I feel very strongly about this.

Christian values in CofE must be explicit and evident in the vision statement. Hence the foyer is usually the big impact point.
There is a daily assembly same as all schools.
We say Grace before lunch and an end of day prayer in class.
They teach 'RE and other religions in a comparative way.
We have all religions and they are never taught any fact is fact.
They are taught Christians believe X, Muslims believe Y and Sikhs believe Z.
Teachers are from all faiths or non faiths.
Children may pray or not but must sit quietly whilst others do.
Children are expected to be designing and leading some services themselves, which might be about keeping safe, sharing, friendship, tolerance and respect etc the same issues in other schools.
Christianity should not be promoted as the only truth or one they should follow.
If someone is teaching Christianity is fact, is the only option, is better than another faith or forcing children to pray in CofE schools then you need to make a complaint.