Why would school not want to do EHCP

[treeglass]

I've posted this in sen as well but my ds is starting the process of seeing the autism team and possibly getting a diagnosis but that's 18 months away. Paediatrician told us to get a EHCP spoke to Senco about it they said he doesn't need one, they have children with autism who haven't got one, and they won't apply if they don't think he'll get it.
They pushed for this referral in the first place
Why are they now saying no? I've done a lot of googling seems like it costs their budget etc
Am I being truly fobbed off here or should I trust the Senco?

Very unlikely a child with ASD will get an EHCP unless they are on the severe end of the spectrum. We have several children diagnosed with ASD in my school and the only one with an EHCP is non-verbal. The rest are expected to get by with "quality-first" teaching - shorthand for we are not going to pay anyone else so teachers should be experts on everything. Make sure you may the SENCO and get your DC onto the SEND register even if they don't have an EHCP. They will have to provide some evidence of how they are supporting him. Also, training in ASD is quite commonplace now so hopefully most staff will have had some.

It can be difficult to get an EHCP.

If you decide to go ahead, then you need to bear the following in mind:

If the school do not support your choice, it will be very difficult to progress with the application.

You will need to know the SENCOP inside out and backwards, and not be afraid of quoting it, or trying to ensure that all parties involved act according to the law, not purely according to what they think, feel, or anything else!

It is a long process, and could well being really lengthy if you have to go to tribunal.

It is infinitely easier (although still extremely arduous) if you can afford private reports.

I have 3 dc with ASD. only one of them has an EHCP. The other two wouldn’t get one, despite their needs being significant. The one who does have an EHCP is (and always has been) in a SN school, and it still took well over 2 years to get her (then) Statement in place (and that didn’t include actually getting to tribunal - would have taken it to over 3 years if I’d had to wait until the date we were allocated, but my LA settled before tribunal).

I have a child at the sever end of the spectrum (30 word vocabulary according to SaLT although staff have only heard a handful of words, not toilet trained and needs support with feeding) and have been told he doesn't need support ...it makes me so angry!

In fact, anyone can apply for an EHCP. You can apply for one for you son. So can the paediatrician, if he thinks that is the right thing to do (funnily enough, doctors tend to change their mind quite fast when it is suggested that they could be the ones to fill it all in). It isn't true that "the school have to do it".
If it isn't an emergency situation (eg I had a child once who'd had a brain hemorrhage), then you do need three cycles of "plan, do, review" and to be able to demonstrate that all the interventions you've tried have not made enough difference. This takes time to do and document properly. And without any diagnosis from an external professional, the process is almost guaranteed to fail - or at least, in my experience.
My most recent successful EHCP was a Year 5 child with a working vocabulary of 5 words, cannot count beyond 10, on Red books, cannot dress themselves successfully etc. It was a huge fight to get it through panel. It comes with not one penny of additional funding. However, it will hopefully help us get the right school for her in Year 7. Maybe. If we are lucky and there is a space and we fight even harder...
In most primary schools, it really isn't that we don't want to fight for our SEND children. We do - we desperately want to meet their needs (it would help so much if there were any extra resources at all, of course). Submitting an EHCP is 30-40 hours work at least - and if they have a perfectly functioning MyPlan (or equivalent), or we know they haven't got a chance of getting through panel, then we can use those hours better in planning interventions for them or training teachers.
We would like paediatricians to stop saying "Must have an EHCP" automatically to so many parents, without seeing the child in the classroom or talking to school. Or even being totally clear on what an EHCP does. I have tried contacting a couple of the doctors we've dealt with and offering to talk them through the EHCP process - pros, cons, timescale etc... I've never had any uptake...!!
Best wishes for a good outcome for your son.

Be aware funding works differently in different LAs. For example, in Derbyshire funding is tied to in EHCP, in neighbouring Nottinghamshire it has to be applied for separately (so an EHCP there can demand a child gets X amount of intervention, but a SENCO still has to bid for the funding to provide this). Just thought it was worth mentioning as some pp have referenced funding as if it is the same everywhere. As a SENCO I'd imagine the issue is not to do with funding and more to do with the huge workload it creates. You can apply without the school and indeed the paediatrician could start the process. It does not need to be pushed back to the school.

The school has to fund the first X amount (can't remember the figure) before the LA top up.

Whilst all the above negative experiences reflect the reality of getting support, i just want to say my son has an ehcp for asd and it didnt involve tribunals or private reports. I wouldnt consider him at the severe end of the spectrum in that he is fully verbal and he can toilet, feed and put his own coat on. He is only a year behind in maths and reading but only because he had no education at all for a year (not my choice) The key difference was he was literally unable to access any learning in school at all and that was evidenced by a variety of professionals and two schools. Our ehcp isnt a year old yet, but i could see the system disintegrating around us.

Seems like I need to do some serious research as I know next to nothing about this really
What I do know is that despite his quirks and meltdowns and inability to sit still for 2 seconds ds is lush
I just want the support he deserves and to make sure his best interests are always at the forefront

Paediatricians very often recommend an EHCP but they really don't understand educational processes and shouldn't be recommending this. Same way as a teacher shouldn't recommend to a doctor that they need to perform surgery 😳. They work within very different systems. Many children with ASC don't have an EHCP. It is more important that there is a shared understanding if need regardless of diagnosis. Sounds like the school are providing support. Has your child got an Individual education plan (IEP or equivalent?). Continue to meet with the senco to review your child's progress and gather evidence for an EHCP assessment down the line.

Teacher here. My LA only seems to grant EHCPs if alternative provision is needed or likely to be needed in the future.

It’s a hideous system.

There's a lot of information here that simply isn't true. There are no 'you won't get an EHCP unless you're not toilet trained / way behind / severe end of the spectrum' (where even is that anyway?!).

EHCPs are mostly based on how good school is at documented the cycle of support and evidencing that is outstrips what they can provide, good professional reports, on the ball parents who research throughly and know what the procedure is and what king of LEA you're in.

My son is profoundly gifted, ASD only found at 8yo when he started having difficulties with angry outbursts at school. He's behind in terms of social and emotional development and mainstream couldn't handle the behaviour that came with it. He was accepted for assessment straight away (school were 😱 as they said he never be) and he was given a high band funded EHCP and now goes to an autism school (which is a million times better).

The legal threshold for assessment for EHCP is VERY low.

www.ipsea.org.uk/asking-for-an-ehc-needs-assessment

May have SEN and may need EHCP support - if you can prove that, legally they have to assess.

My DD's school refused and said she wouldn't get one. I did the paperwork myself and the council issued EHCP within 6 months. I would advise anyone to apply themselves.

I really wish doctors wouldn’t make demands about what education professionals can or should do. They don’t know how the system works. Why should they; they’re doctors? But it’s annoying when they set up an expectation about another profession that can’t then be fulfilled.

This, with bells on.
Too many paediatricians think that a diagnosis of autism automatically = an EHCP. It doesn't. There are people with autism who access education well.
There's no reason why a school wouldn't apply for an EHCP if they believe a child needs one or will get one.

I think the expectation we were given as health professionals when we moved from statements to EHCP was that it would be about much more than the educational need and certainly I have seen some of the schools I work in be able to embrace the more holistic aspect of the process, but i think in reality for most kids and schools it hasn't worked out that way.

From your son's perspective, at this point you really need to be focused on how the school are planning to support him, making sure their targets for him (IEP) are realistic, and that anything they say he needs is provided. If they aren't able to do that within their resources that is when an EHCP will be useful.

You don't need a diagnosis for an EHCP. Some children will never get a diagnosis despite severe needs. Sometimes a child sits within several areas.

We are led by the Ed P who advises us on the likelihood or not of it being granted. An EHCP is funded by the L.A but they vary. Some LA' s provide additional support and opportunities to those in the L.A but not if from another LA. Some LA 's pay a year in arrears. We have children on P levels who will never get an EHCP because they are progressing.

There has been a House of Commons report recently.

www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/education-committee/inquiries/parliament-2017/special-educational-needs-and-disability-inquiry-17-19/

In the Summary it says

"There is too much of a tension between the child’s needs and the provision available. The significant funding shortfall is a serious contributory factor to the failure on the part of all involved to deliver on the SEND reforms and meet children’s needs. Ultimately, however, unless we see a culture change, within schools and local authorities and the Government, any additional money will be wasted and make little difference to their lives."

As demonstrated by this thread, arguments that DC need to be incontinent and non-verbal (false) are deployed by schools to avoid applying themselves and to discourage parents from applying. Not for an EHCP but for assessment of need. Unfortunately it is simple - if you don't identify a need, you are not required to support it. There is a belief that the teacher's subjective assessment is more accurate than objective assessments carried out by professionals because teachers have to deliver provision. They therefore don't deliver provision even where an EHCP exists because they think (with no evidence) that alternative (cheaper) provision is more realistic.

DS2 had an EHCP specifying f/t LSA support but his school said they don't do 1:1 and gave him access to the class TA instead. Not all classes had TAs so he had to be streamed into classes for DC with below average attainment even though cognitive assessment by the LA EP put him in the 'gifted' 99th percentile. Not surprisingly classwork was not recorded (no 1:1 or use of IT), homework was not recorded, so not done, resulting in detention etc. DS1 became a gibbering wreck after a matter of weeks and was signed off by his GP after one term.

The SEN budget is not ring-fenced and schools allocate the budget without first identifying existing levels of need or considering needs of DC who join after the annual budget is agreed The budget is used to deliver a package and it is difficult to get bespoke support with DC with an EHCP who doesn't need nurture groups and cannot access the curriculum despite social skills group, Lego therapy etc.

This tension creates an adversarial stance with the child (and parent advocates) on one side and the school/LA on the other. One of the reasons why so many SENDIST appeals are successful is because assessment is inadequate and full assessments by EP, OT and SALT are only commissioned when Tribunal is approaching and the LA is desperately scrabbling around for evidence of the absence of need.

Listen to teachers but check the validity of what they say. Be wary of advice given by SENDIASS - they may prioritise local LA policy over the law. Visit the websites of IPSEA, SOS!SEN, NAS, special needs jungle and FB groups such as EHCP experiences.

We have the EHCP draft meeting for our (3YO) twins next week, both are autistic. I’m absolutely dreading it. The Ed Psych reports were pretty brutal but will it be enough? No idea. I applied myself in the end as the nursery were dragging their heels.

"You can only ask for an EHC needs assessment if the child or young person has, or may have, SEN – it does not apply where there are only health or social care needs. Remember that under the law, a child has SEN if they have a learning difficulty or a disability which calls for special educational provision. You can read more about the definition of SEN here."
https://www.ipsea.org.uk/asking-for-an-ehc-needs-assessment

Unfortunately it can be down to funds and the SENDCO not being bothered or not understanding . From what you are describing it sounds like your child needs an EHCP . The school have to prove to the LA that they cannot mean the child’s needs with just their resources . Therefore it is a graduated process , termly meetings and a paper trail for evidence . Please don’t concern yourself with the funding issue from school or being told you won’t get one . I had two useless teachers , who’s lack of SEND knowledge was shocking , tell me I wouldn’t get one for my child . I did . First time round , very easily . So do what you think is right . If you think your child needs one - apply . Funding and money is there issue to get tangled up in not yours , you want your child to have the best education possible .

People that are arguing that a child will get a ehcp because they are incontine my ds is incontinent and school still believe that he wouldn't get one.

@Foxyloxy1plus1

There is so much false information on this thread it’s terrifying and most of it is coming from educational professionals.

Local authorities are currently getting slammed for behaving illegally with regards EHCP’s.

The op should apply herself, find “operation diversity” on Facebook, gather as much knowledge as possible and be prepared to appeal (most are successful on appeal)

@Norestformrz

Have you advised the parents to appeal the EHCP decision.

I can't believe the tripe that is being peddled on this thread

My DS is in the middle of his A levels at a mainstream college and has an active EHCP

He has never been behind his peer group in terms of academic ability

I teach at a special school -all pupils on roll have an EHCP and we have pupils joining us in every year group, including year 11, as schools are perpetuating the myths around EHCPs

OP please contact SOS!SEN for some guidance -they are invaluable

Of course Maldives2006.

Why would schools NOT apply for an EHCP? If you have a child who has additional needs of any kind that impact on learning then any support is helpful, funded support even more so! If there is a chance that an EHCP will be agreed, then great! The percentage of pupils with an EHCP is 2.9%, my school has 4.3% and I have 3 currently in process with 2 PCP meetings on the same day next week! But if that means that 3 additional children get the support they need, then all the better. !