Bright or Exceptional?

[Browntile]

Would like others views on this if possible please.

Boy aged 4 and one month. Obviously not starting school until Sept next year.

Able to recognise numbers up to 1000.
Secure in number bonds to 20

Can name square numbers to 100 and understands concept of what a square number is
Knows 2, 3, 5 and 10 times tables and understands concept as well as some other times tables and can invert (divide) the same
sums.
Can answer questions such as 42+3 or 68-2
Recognises shapes such as pentagon, hexagon etc

Is this just relatively bright or quite exceptional? Thank you.

Fair point purple

My memory is also bovine

Thanks @Medianoche , will see what he makes of it!

I think you’ll have to be careful re reception as hell be well above the standard. There is mumsnet world and real world at play here.

The early year goals (So to reach by the end of reception) for 2019

LG 11 Numbers:
• Children count reliably with numbers from 1 to 20, place them in order and say which number is one more or one less than a given number
• Using quantities and objects, they add and subtract 2 single-digit numbers and count on or back to find the answer
• They solve problems, including doubling, halving and sharing

Does it matter?

This is pretty exceptional. I understand you as if he is fluent in his timetables and recall numberbonds without counting on fingers/objects etc. If he keeps progressing at this rate he will have completed the KS2 curriculum by the end of reception - if he grasps division, fractions and percentages.

We have DS1 who was similar and the word gifted is now being used by his large primary (he’s Y2). We went for a three class entry primary to increase the chances of him not being the only one who loved maths like that. He’s also rubbish at other things (can’t yet ride a bike). Interestingly (to me) primary are much less excited by his reading (free reader at Y1) because that’s just pattern recognition!

Definitely unexceptional! in DD's class almost all (including the summer borns) could do all that when they started reception. Some could do more and a few could do less. It's apparently a bright class but I doubt they're all exceptionally gifted. Most of what you're describing is purely memory based.

His ability does seem well above average for his age. All 4 year olds know maths because they have been taught it; they have had it explained, watched it on TV or had a parent count or show them numbers. If Numberblocks is working for him, that is great. If he is ahead in maths it does not matter how he got there, so long as he enjoys learning it.

I would watch that the older children are not looking at his ability and thinking they are not maths people.

Not in the grand scheme of things no. I merely want to support him as best I can whether he excels at something or otherwise and was interested in what other thought as to whether this was common or not.

Sorry that last message was in reply to 57Varieties.

CheerfulMuddler - yes I do wonder if he’ll just level out. My eldest DS now13, was a great early reader in primary. Finished the reading scheme before the end of year one (I do know that’s not particularly exceptional before anyone jumps on to tell me 😉) and whilst relatively bright now and doing well he is by no means exceptional.

Definitely not common! I don't know any children anywhere near that level.
Only on Mumsnet do people say that's normal. Encourage him as best as you can. :) maybe get some workbooks for him to work on alongside school, or consider homeschooling/flexi schooling so he doesn't get bored / isn't challenged enough.

CrispsSandwiches - from other comments on here I seriously doubt that an entire class is that bright! My reception teacher friend who works in a very good school said that none of her children would have been able to do that by the end of reception last year and I have no doubt the large majority of those kids will go on to do very well.

Thanks JustAnotherMammi. We have a work book which he occasionally asks to do. I will see what happens when he starts school and support/encourage him in every way I can (though frankly I don’t think I’ll be capable of home schooling him!!)

Most children can learn maths a lot faster than they are taught by school. Teaching at home does tend to be a lot quicker. If he is going to do nearly another year of learning at home before starting reception, be aware that some schools are better than others with catering for outliers.
If he continues learning at home he may well stay well ahead, but may not actually learn any new maths at school.

Surely as PP said this is just memory. It has more to do with whether the child has an interest in taking that stuff on to concentrate. I know a few children who could do this around that age. My DS could do this at about 3 (with the exception of the times tables which he didn't know by heart - I'm sure he could have learned then had I felt inclined to teach him). Lots of kids can't do that on starting school but that has more to do with what they've been exposed to at home. That's not to say he isn't exceptional but the fact that he can do that certainly isn't evidence on it's own. Likewise lots (although not the majority) of kids start reception reading fluently while others might not know their letters - it often completely levels out within a few years.

Actual mathematical ability is indicated more by understanding ideas and the ability to problem solve rather than fluency with numbers which can be developed with practise and a good memory. Can he add 10? If he knows 6+7 = 13 can he deduce 6+8 = 14. Can he add 100 to a number? Can he add 99? My own DS who has actually go on to be exceptional at maths (as oppose to DD who was good with numbers but now just good and unexceptional) at around 4 or slightly before worked out that two odd numbers would always give an even and with a bit of help an odd number of odd numbers would give an odd number etc.

I think that's pretty amazing ! My 2nd child is great at Maths, so lucky for those crust find it easy

@OnceFreshFish it’s really not just memory. My son is 4y 9months and has the same sort of grasp of numbers as the OPs son. Will randomly come out with stuff like “3 doesn’t go into 17 because there’s a 2 sticking out”. He understands squares and cubes and can do quite complicated addition. He’s another graduate of the Numberblocks school of mathematics. It really is an excellent resource for kids as it teaches them how to think about numbers.
OP, have you looked at ways of expanding his interest in numbers into other areas? We’re currently looking at that and I’m interested in what other parents have done

Just to add to the mostly excellent comments on here that I agree it’s exceptional; number bonds to 20 is at the start of the Y2 curriculum.

I know a lot of it could be called memory based, but the OP’s DS seems to have a grasp of concepts as well as facts.

As another check you could do things like seeing if he can apply his number bond knowledge for 10 to numbers to 100 or more, or for place value any adding/subtracting over a tens boundary is good e.g 100-9, 96+5.

Maybe it's just because both my kids were good at maths and I encouraged it at home but this doesn't strike me as exceptional. A lot of kids would be capable of that at this age but just haven't been exposed to it. Above average yes but not amazing. I would also add that a lot of the differences at this age even out as the kids grow up. As a PP said I would be more interested in understanding of concepts rather than fluency with numbers which can come quite easily with practise.

I would also add that a lot of the differences at this age even out as the kids grow up.

OTOH, I kept making sure that dd maths learning was to the top of her potential. She was at a similarly advanced level when she started reception and remained ahead. If anything, the gap widened.

He is bright because enjoys learning and does this with ease. His ability level in maths is exceptional because very few of the other children starting in reception will have been taught maths to this level. Therefore he will be an exception to the norm.

No, that’s very good! Just a word of warning, though. My DS3 was self taught reading CVC words aged 3, was way ahead of his peers at reading in infants, reading Harry Potter (first couple of books) at 6 etc. Definitely exceptional. But he got a 5 for English language GCSE, and a 5 for English Lit. Definitely not exceptional! His peers caught up and in many cases overtook.

His maths is still pretty good, though. He was counting in 2s age 2, ie house numbers, going backwards along the road from 70 to 68 to 66 etc. He could tell me the next number. He’s doing maths and FM A levels, predicted A* for both but still isn’t Oxbridge material. (Those grade 5s in English... )

So, I’d say keep the interest going, keep him stretched and enjoying maths. It’s a very useful skill and hopefully he’ll do well.

Definitely exceptional, I teach that age group and would be jaw on the floor to witness this. Hexagons/pentagons etc mine could do at 2 because she was interested in shapes, but the rest is gobsmacking

I think the exceptional factor (not maths factor!) is that he's picked this up from sources such at TV.
My DS (who was a live wire of a toddler) learnt to read from being strapped in a high chair in front of Countdown on the TV whilst i made his supper. I was amazed when he spontaneously read a complicated street sign - 'how did you know that?????"
He went on to be an academically high achiever, (100% in GCSEs, Cambridge + PhD) and a well rounded human being but the early years were a concern. The Junior school put him in (with others) to classes years above for subjects they excelled in, the Secondary school got the local University lecturers in to teach other exceptionally academic children. I think he was lucky in those days Gifted and Talented was the trend and acceptable, exceptional kids were identified and their needs met.

What do you mean by exceptional vs bright?

I'd say its better than top 1% but not one in a million if you know what I mean. My friends' son is very similar. They also don't push him though they do support him but it came from him via youtube math videos he found himself!

Sounds great and keep supporting his interests.