Y1 - keeping children in at break time to finish work

[brilliotic]

DD is 5, in Y1. Over the last two weeks, several children including DD have been made to miss break time, including the opportunity to eat their snack - some of them multiple times.

We spoke to the teacher who basically confirmed what we thought had happened: DD hadn't completed her work so was made to do it during break time - unsupported, hence it took her a long time. She said that if a child hadn't completed work due to not staying on task (rather than due to it being beyond their abilities) then that the child will be kept in at break time - that is her classroom policy. She said she believes the children will learn quickly not to mess about.

So she seems to be seeing it as something children are choosing to do. Whereas at age 5 (some of them are really only just 5; DD is a bit older but not yet 5.5), IMO, many children struggle to remain on task simply because their concentration span is short and they need many breaks and opportunities to run about and move. Yes they need to learn to work independently and stay on task for longer periods, but perhaps they need a little help to get there. Telling a child 'you need to stay on task' is not going to make the child more able to stay on task. If a 5-yo struggles with concentrating, they need support not punishment; more breaks not less. Anyway those are my thoughts.

So personally I find it pretty outrageous that 5 year old children are routinely (this has been happening pretty much every day) being made to miss their break time. I think it won't improve their learning, their behaviour, or their happiness - on the contrary, I feel it will have a negative effect on all three of those aspects.

But there is nothing I can do, is there?

DD is asking every day to not be made to go to school (that happened maybe once a month in reception). She even schemes to create situations where she might be kept home (she told me she was trying to stay awake as long as possible, so she would be too tired to go to school the next day - she and her older brother have both had occasional days where they didn't get enough sleep for some reason, but never have I let either of them off school for that, so she is clutching at straws really). She says school is 'boring' - what she means is that they never get to play. The teacher confirmed that they do not have play/choosing times anymore, at all. DS a few years back in Y1 still got plenty of opportunities to play, even in Y2 occasionally, but now the (different) teacher says that there can't be any 'learning through playing' in Y1.

Was DS particularly lucky to have a warm, gentle atmosphere at school where children were treated age appropriately? Is the norm more like DD's experience, where Y1 means all work no play, and punishments and consequences, and when children come out of school crying, they are told they need to be more resilient?

• Or is DD particularly unlucky, whereas most children will have an experience more like DS's?

YANBU the jump from reception to year 1 is hard enough without them losing what little play time they still have.

I think missing play time is not on at all. If this was the case with my child I would
Be making a complaint to the school. It is true that year 1 is a big change from reception in terms of amount of time playing. So the playtime that they do have is very important and they should not be missing it!

I agree with the others that missing playtime is unacceptable, especially at this age. I would be complaining about it if that happened at our school. My son is also in Y1 and that's not the done thing where he is.

Your other question around play led learning...I think the system has now changed for everyone and there is a big jump from reception to Y1. Children in the past might have spent more time playing and having child-led play-based learning, but this is not the case anymore. At least not in our area (London). In our school Y1 get 2 breaks plus one at lunch, there are no toys in the room and most of the learning is structured. Our school has done a great job with trying to transition children, but at the end of the day they have to work within the requirements of the school system. I have a younger child who will is August born and seeing how things change from reception to Y1, I am starting to consider whether to defer his start until he is 5 (as opposed to a few days after 4).

Asking 5-year-olds, right at the start of Y1, to miss break/snack times regularly to complete work without supervision/assistance is clearly unreasonable.

There's a difference between messing about because you're deliberately being naughty, and getting distracted because you're 5 and very new to formal learning.

You know you're correct on this, and you've spoken to the teacher already, and it has not been changed. As a result of this teacher's actions, your DD doesn't want to go to school. I would ask for a meeting with someone more senior.

Many parents have spoken to the teacher about their children being made to miss breaktimes. From what I've heard the teacher has told them all something to the extent of 'my classroom, my rules'. I also hear it wasn't like this last year (when the teacher was new to the school).

The headteacher is notoriously unavailable to speak to, unfortunately. A formal complaint is pretty much the only way to get her attention and I am not sure I am quite ready for that yet. Also I have little hope that things would improve after that, anyway.

I am thinking that maybe now that 20% of parents have spoken to the teacher individually about this, we should wait and hope that something might change?

This is an awful way to treat children, especially in year 1!

If the teacher wants to get the best from the children she needs to allow them to have some downtime and a movement break.

Speak to someone more senior.

Even if the kid is messing around it's unacceptable to miss playtime. There's alot of evidence to show that it makes behaviour worse. 5 year old's are often not developmentally ready to sit still and concentrate for long periods of time. They need physical exercise and free play. A child who is finding the work hard or getting easily distracted needs more help in lesson time not less chance to regroup at playtime.

I'd be complaining. If 20% have spoken to her I'd be going straight to the head. They are 5.

that is unacceptable behaviour from the teacher. They are in Y1 not Y6. I would pull all the parents together and make a 'class' complaint to the Headteacher pronto.

Check the behaviour policy. Dd3 was being kept in for part of lunch as a whole class punishment which is not in line with the policy - I'm a governor and signed off on it! I went to the deputy head as it was a new teacher and it felt like she needed some slt support settling in and learning the new school.

I'm very anti detention (which the sanction of missing play time is) for any primary age child without serious reasons.

Out of interest, when do you think your DD should complete the work?

The teacher has to get the children to a point by the end of the year and if they don't learn not to mess about then they won't complete enough work to stay on track. They'll just keep falling further and further behind each lesson.

I would say she cannot be kept in but i want the work sent home with her.
I would ask them to consider if this is penalising the younger in year ones.
Should they be looking at how many Q the kids are getting through and adjust expectations.
However i found my dc1 just didnt bother doing the maths work in class. Looking through her books it is never completed. And unsurprisingly this led to not meeting expectations in yr 1. She just wasnt getting enough practice and support.

nuttybutty I'm sorry your point is ridiculous. The child's well being comes before a teacher's targets. I'm amazed this isn't obvious to you. Kids need play time. Missing it is not an option. Some kids take longer to read and write or reach the maturity to sit still and I centrate. They should not miss playtime as a result. Missing playtime means their mental, physical health is negatively impacted. Their behaviour also gets worse (unsurprisingly).

HolesinTheSoles

You've ignored my question and made up a lot of things that I didn't say. I'm amazed THIS isn't obvious to you. It's a bit weird to go off on a rant about things that you've imagined someone saying. I didn't say anything about the teacher's targets.

The point stands, when should children do their work if they don't do it in the lesson? Should they be left to fall further and further behind every day? Should the teacher just say oh well I won't bother to make sure that child does all the things they've missed.

When should teachers try to close the gap, particularly if they're moving onto a completely different lesson the next day?

Be a teacher for 10 minutes and you'd realise what it's like.

I never say this but I would complain to the head and then to the governors if no luck.. Its outrageous a 5 year old is being kept in and I say that as a teacher

I once worked in a school where this was actively encouraged by the head. I refused to keep my year 1 children in at break and regularly got hauled into meetings where I was bollocked for my non compliance.

Keeping children in at break isbt going to help reach targets. Of anything it makes them disengaged and switch off. They need fresh air and free play. Some of those child n rely on their snack as the only food they'll have that morning.

Letting children mess around and not do their work doesn't help them stay engaged either.

OP said they only had to stay in at play if they "hadn't completed work due to not staying on task (rather than due to it being beyond their abilities)"

The teacher is probably doing this due to pressure from above. No teacher likes keeping children in at break because it means they lose their break too! I SLT often don't get Year 1 and expect lots more work in books than most Year 1 children are capable of. Does not make it right though. Keeping them in at that age is counter productive anyway as they will be exhausted for the lesson after break/lunch. Please do complain!

Thanks everyone for your comments.

Yes HonestTeacher I do think there might be pressure from above. That is why I am a bit reluctant to make a complaint. I would much rather support the teacher so she can do what Pinkflipflop did. Right now we're 'waiting and seeing'. There was a 'meet the teacher' type of meeting (I wasn't able to attend) where several parents used the opportunity to express their concerns about this (which btw does not feature in the school's behaviour policy). The head teacher was present. I'm hoping that whilst they would never admit any fault, they might just quietly stop doing it. But if DD should be kept in again to complete work, we will take it further.

Nuttybutter, I think I explained in the OP how I feel about it. But specifically as to your questions
"Out of interest, when do you think your DD should complete the work?"
I would say that "completing the work" (doing work for work's sake) isn't the point. The primary aim is to get the children to learn certain things, and secondarily, to get the children to demonstrate that they have learned these things, so they can be assessed. Making a 5 year old miss break time to complete work will not achieve the primary aim. If they have already mastered this skill, they don't need to do the activity to learn it. If they are struggling with this skill, then they are much more likely to learn it if they have a break, and come back to it afterwards, with some support (perhaps the only support needed is to stay on task; perhaps the child was messing about because they really don't quite understand it yet and need some help).
By making a child miss breaktime to complete work, you might achieve your secondary aim (getting evidence), but at the cost of reducing the child's learning, as they will have missed their break and will thus be learning less in the subsequent lesson.

So when should my child complete the work? If it is work for work's sake, not at all. If my child has missed an important bit of learning due to messing about, a time will have to be found to catch that up. Mind, that would be a time when the child is receptive and ready to learn, not tired and in need of downtime. If a child is frequently not learning due to messing about, the teacher could help avoid a growing gap (fortunately not a problem in my DD's case) by providing that child help in staying on task. Rather than making it harder for them to stay on task, by depriving them of their break.

"Letting children mess around and not do their work doesn't help them stay engaged either."

I agree with that. And when other children are messing about, it will be even harder for mine as she will be distracted (and vice versa). So I would really like for the overall amount of messing about to be reduced.

It's just that I believe that there are ways to help young children stay on task for longer. They do not include ignoring their messing about, nor do they include making them miss their breaktime. Rather they include things like frequent movement breaks, scaffolding, organising teaching sessions in line with age-appropriate expectations, having support staff to sit with the less mature children who struggle more with concentration and continuously bring their attention back to the task on hand, breaking down the tasks into shorter blocks, ... that kind of stuff.

It seems awfully unhealthy for a child that age to skip a snack and exercise. Surely a well trained and competent teacher has more tools for facilitating learning in her bag than punishing a 5 year old.

nuttybutter I haven't made anything up. Look at the papers removing play time makes behaviour worse. Many kids are not able at 5 to sit and concentrate for very long. Some are simply not able to do the work asked if them in y1. If that's the case they should be given extra help in class time and if they don't meet targets then they don't meet targets not all children will. A competent teacher will have many strategies for helping children to concentrate that don't involve losing play time. Play time isn't optional it's vital for kids of 5 years old.

It's amazing how otherwise sensible people quote "targets" as a justifiable reason for seriously undermining a child's physical and mental health. I have every sympathy for teachers who are underpaid and overworked but of course my priority is still going to be the well being of my child. It's clearly unacceptable for kids to be kept in at play time. There is plenty of evidence that children in this country get insufficient physical exercise and free play time. It is not acceptable for that to be eroded even further.

If a child is messing around in lessons there are a host of strategies a teacher should have to address the issue. Keeping them inside at play time should not be one of them and as others have pointed out will be detrimental to the child's learning in any case.

I was a year 1 teacher last year (with 30 children and no TA) and I did keep a child in if they were not completing a task, had been given copious support, options, now/next cards, plenty of time to play etc etc but just refusing to get on with their work. The alternative being they never do any of their written work which would be a lot easier for me but I'd be failing them. I would never make them miss the whole break though and honestly tried everything else first. Often the quietness and incentive of going outside made them get on with it amazingly well! I guess it depends if the task set is a reasonable expectation for that child.