Y1 - keeping children in at break time to finish work

[brilliotic]

DD is 5, in Y1. Over the last two weeks, several children including DD have been made to miss break time, including the opportunity to eat their snack - some of them multiple times.

We spoke to the teacher who basically confirmed what we thought had happened: DD hadn't completed her work so was made to do it during break time - unsupported, hence it took her a long time. She said that if a child hadn't completed work due to not staying on task (rather than due to it being beyond their abilities) then that the child will be kept in at break time - that is her classroom policy. She said she believes the children will learn quickly not to mess about.

So she seems to be seeing it as something children are choosing to do. Whereas at age 5 (some of them are really only just 5; DD is a bit older but not yet 5.5), IMO, many children struggle to remain on task simply because their concentration span is short and they need many breaks and opportunities to run about and move. Yes they need to learn to work independently and stay on task for longer periods, but perhaps they need a little help to get there. Telling a child 'you need to stay on task' is not going to make the child more able to stay on task. If a 5-yo struggles with concentrating, they need support not punishment; more breaks not less. Anyway those are my thoughts.

So personally I find it pretty outrageous that 5 year old children are routinely (this has been happening pretty much every day) being made to miss their break time. I think it won't improve their learning, their behaviour, or their happiness - on the contrary, I feel it will have a negative effect on all three of those aspects.

But there is nothing I can do, is there?

DD is asking every day to not be made to go to school (that happened maybe once a month in reception). She even schemes to create situations where she might be kept home (she told me she was trying to stay awake as long as possible, so she would be too tired to go to school the next day - she and her older brother have both had occasional days where they didn't get enough sleep for some reason, but never have I let either of them off school for that, so she is clutching at straws really). She says school is 'boring' - what she means is that they never get to play. The teacher confirmed that they do not have play/choosing times anymore, at all. DS a few years back in Y1 still got plenty of opportunities to play, even in Y2 occasionally, but now the (different) teacher says that there can't be any 'learning through playing' in Y1.

Was DS particularly lucky to have a warm, gentle atmosphere at school where children were treated age appropriately? Is the norm more like DD's experience, where Y1 means all work no play, and punishments and consequences, and when children come out of school crying, they are told they need to be more resilient?

• Or is DD particularly unlucky, whereas most children will have an experience more like DS's?

pinkizzy that sounds very different to how DD's teacher is handling it. On the same day that DD was kept in from break to finish her work, the teacher had assured us in the morning that DD was fine with the learning tasks and completing them well. So it wasn't a case of her 'never' doing any written work, it was just this once. But if a child were to 'always' mess about and never getting any written work done, despite your best effort to support, wouldn't that cause you firstly to consider if perhaps something else is going on here?
And though I don't know if or how the teacher attempted to get her back on task during the actual learning time, I do know that she was unsupported during break time (that's what the teacher told us). I suspect that if the teacher had sat next to her, she would have finished in less than three minutes. She (and the teacher) would both have had their breaks.
I guess you are right that it depends on the task being a reasonable expectation for that child, but not merely in terms of academic abilities, but also in terms of sitting still, concentrating, staying on task. And this can vary not just between children, but also for one child from day to day - they might have longer attention spans in the mornings than in the afternoons, they might have better days and worse days, they might have not eaten any lunch (or too much sugary pudding), ...
The incentive of going outside would only work if a child was choosing to mess about rather than getting the work done. If a child was genuinely struggling to focus, then seeing all their mates go outside would feel very much like an unfair punishment for something beyond the child's control. Turning school into an unpredictable, unhappy place.

HolesinTheSoles

Yes you did make things up. I said nothing about teacher's targets yet this is what you ranted at me for. I also didn't say I agreed with the teacher so I don't know why you're going on at me about papers.

I simply asked the OP when she thinks that children who mess around should catch up on their work. The OP answered sensibly.

Your reading comprehension skills are very poor.

A school near me did this. I think its awful.

The teacher should be helping children that are struggling to do the task. Or more likely - a different type of task.

When my eldest was at this point in yr 1 there was still a fair amount of play or active based activities. That seeks to have changed to being v desk focused work. Young teachers or older age trained teachers dont seem to understand small children.

There needs to be different activities or more movement or change how they learn. Dont keep a child in who isnt intentionally misbehaving . Reception done properly os playbased, they're only 5.

You can't just blame a 'type' of teacher for the more formal style of learning in year 1. It isn't as simple as that.

Changes to the curriculum and pressures from above are usually the reason. Plenty of year 1 teachers know exactly what is best for their children, but no longer have the autonomy to actually decide and do what is best for the children that they teach.

Absolutely is the crazy pressure from above. Still isnt right to keep 5 year olds in. Learning is a long game and to put children off and punish them for not being "on task" at the start of it isnt going to get desired results. Enthusing them in learning etc is.

I completly agree with you OP. We expect far too much from these still very young children. Our school system is much too formal too soon. It's certainly more formal than it was when my children were at school in the 90s and it's even more formal and expectations are greater at a much younger age now than when I was at school inntheb1960s.

My DC were at school in the late 1990s and they didn’t play in y1 in the classroom. There were no toys. Neither was anyone kept in at breaks to complete work. Some DC were put into a group with a TA to keep them on task but without a TA, this is difficult. Most schools I know still have a TA available in the mornings for core curriculum work. A lot was expected of my DDs who are both summer born and they were happy so I think the work and play at breaks worked. They also enjoyed drama, music and art so this gave them a break from formal learning.

The teacher cannot make up her own rules regarding detention at break time. Look at the behaviour and sanctions policy. Check what it says about sanctions in particular. If this is not in the policy, you have every right to complain to the Head. If the teacher doesn’t respond to you, go to the Head because that’s unacceptable too.

A child isn’t meeting targets if they need extra time to do the work.

We didn't have expectations in the 1960s. There was no national curriculum and teachers did what they wanted and for some DC it wasn’t enough. The grammar schools took a few DC and no one cared what the others achieved. Few of them got a sniff of university and in fact, a minority of grammar DC did too. Education was good enough, definitely not good!

Ask her how she is fulfilling 'transistion' moving children on from from play in reception to more structure in yr1. It should revolve over a term in the schools I've worked in, and in yr1 not reception as old school teachers have done.

My DC1 has just gone into year 3. His (London, deprived area, state school) school did a v gentle transition throughout year 1. He was still playing and having choosing at the end of the year (although by then it was only ‘maths choosing’ and ‘English choosing’, except for the Friday afternoon fun time). I don’t think this ‘year 1 is a shock to the system’ experience has to be universal.

I agree with you that the teacher’s expectations may not be age appropriate and the punishment certainly isn’t. Having failed to resolve with the class teacher, I’d be approaching the phase leader next.

When I ta'd in year one this early on in the year. Teacher was with one group. One group worked 'independently' rest were structured free play which I supervised. All rotated, whilst we got to know them all and group them. Those who were ready for 'work' moved on and those who needed time got it. They are so little still.

And I'd speak to the secretary and explain you've tried to sort situation with teacher but not resolved. Could you speak to head of key stage.