What to do with a more than able Year 5 reader?

[ExpatMomOf1]

Hi all,

I feel like I have been banging my head against a brick wall. I need your help. I’m new to Mumsnet and it is very much a feeling of helplessness bringing me here!

My DC is 9, in a small independent school in London. Last year, her school tested a variety things and came back with: she reads on the level of a 17 year old (at the start of Y3 it was 16 🤷🏻‍♀️). She’s in a class of just 12 students and it feels like they should be able to differentiate for her very, very easily.

But they don’t. And they seem to just defensively fight the idea that she’s operating at an above year level (I was told by her teacher, who moved up with the class, in a caustic tone that she was a “very, very good teacher” who resents the idea that my daughter isn’t being stretched/challenged, but cannot point to a single text that she has assigned that matches my daughter’s abilities as tested by the school).

It’s all just frankly a bit weird. I get that they actively don’t like me and think that I’m the annoying, pushy American, but my kid is super likeable and very bright. But I keep getting fobbed off with “she’s lovely and she’ll be fine in whatever she does, but we don’t think she’s on track for a very academic secondary school.” (I read this as “wife track”, which is fine if that’s what my daughter wants but right now she says she wants to run an advertising agency or be a large animal veterinarian surgeon).

Except, again, she’s 9 and reading on the level of a 17 year old.

I have met with them more times than I can count, including the previous head and previous teachers as well as this head and this teacher. I have sent them links to articles with citations of academic journals from peer reviewed journals on why it is vital to stretch more than able readers from their level. I have begged them to give her reading on her level. Instead she’s being read to, like it’s still story-time in the nursery corner.

What magic words am I missing to get this very, very expensive school to actually teach my child rather than warehouse her? What cultural faux pas am I stumbling over?

Thank you so much for any help!! I just want the best for my kid, as we all do.

-Desperate Expat Mom

17 year olds surely read the same as adults? So can't she just read whatever books she fancies - some young adult fiction (so the subject matter is interesting and appropriate) The classics - Jane Austen etc at home, and just let the teacher's know that's what she's reading? Don't rely on the school to provide reading materials.

I think you may find your child can read the texts that a 17 year old may read but does not have the emotional maturity to fully understand them.

Personally breadth of reading is as important as reading age imo.

I remember reading Jane Austen at this age but it is only with adult life experience that I fully understand it now.

And sadly, the more expensive the school is doesn't correlate with the quality of teaching necessarily. By far and away the best primaries round my area are the state ones. But that's by the by - I get that when you're paying through the nose you expect them to at least not be shit. When she is being read to, I presume that's part of a whole class activity leading into a discussion etc? It's not them thinking she can't read and doing it in a 1:1 session?

How is her performance in areas other than reading? If they don’t think she’s on track for an academic secondary school then she isn’t performing brilliantly in all areas. It may be that it’s a better use of their time to push her to perform better in other areas than work on reading different material.

And sadly, the more expensive the school is doesn't correlate with the quality of teaching necessarily
Actually I don't mean sadly! I think it's great that money doesn't equate to better education. Of course it does in some areas and circumstances, but I'm bloody ecstatic it doesn't round here!

I'm fairly sure they can't measure reading past something like age 11, because then it's just the level of someone who can access anything. And reading to a child is vital. Even if they can read. Mine was one of those who could just read from a ridiculously early age. Nothing we did, he just could. And we still read to him even though he's about to turn ten. I'll read to him as long as he still wants me to and I'm sure after that he'll turn to audiobooks.

I doubt her teachers need telling what to do, reading is all about understanding once you can do it, and being read to is a fantastic way to broaden experience of stories.

Er, buy her books off Amazon or get a library card?
You cannot expect the school to develop a curriculum tailored to just your DD. She will have to do whatever book the class is doing.
At secondary school, she will be in top set English so that will help.
Gifted readers are expected to read at their level as a supra-curricular activity on their own time.

Why is she not on track for academic secondary? She may be reading at level of 17yr old, but what about her maths and sciences? If I were you, I’d be focused on whatever her weaknesses are that may hinder her chances of getting into a good secondary school.

Yes that's true. I'm a 38 year old audiobook fan - I love being read to! If you wsnt her to progress her reading but she's already totally fluent, work on text analysis, discussion of themes etc. Like a book club!

Im not sure why you are hung up on reading age. Mine read very early and I just regularly took then to the library and they chose books. Once they got to about 7 they didnt need the school to provide books, they chose their own! Id find it a bit weird wanting school to help with reading for an able reader.

Academic ability is separate to reading ability (although linked, its harder to achieve academically if you struggle with reading). If school isn't helping her academically try a state school? Private schools are supposed to guide you to suitable secondaries. You don't have to go to a super selective secondary to come out with some good exam results and a good career.

I'd be concerned with any school suggesting a wife track . Different school?

What's the difference in a reading age of 16 and 17? How would you know the difference? Is there a reading age of 18?

Seriously, just let her choose the books she wants to read. You know. For her own pleasure. Not everything is a competition.

Is she advanced in other areas or just reading? How do you expect them to differentiate with regards to reading? My dd is 9 and just reads whatever books she wants from the school library.

Thank heavens there are still schools who read to children! Story time at the end of the day is a great time to introduce children to new authors (including the classics ), to provide a wind down from a busy day, to have a shared experience and to show that reading for pleasure is a pleasure to be savoured and valued.

Maybe instead of trawling the internet for articles to raise your child's teacher's eyebrows beyond their hairline you could take your daughter to the nearest library and let her choose her own books, poetry and information texts to stretch her mind.

A private school with only twelve in each class is probably in a very tight spot financially - bless them, they probably can't afford to buy books. Hope they can afford to continue to pay their teachers a living wage.

It’s not about how they can decide though, is it. My Y5 would be perfectly capable of decoding an adult book (they can’t have told you age 17 - that’s just adult level) but no way has the emotional maturity and therefore comprehension level (which is what is actually important in reading) to read an adult novel. I should listen to the school and let them get on with it

Decode not decide 🙄

she reads on the level of a 17 year old

What does that mean though? Most able 11 or 12 year olds will be able to decode to the same level of a 17 year old. And surely in terms of comprehension after 14 or 15 it’s all very much subject dependent. I would say able (as in ‘average’ for their age I suppose) readers have reached their reading height by 15 or 16, probably younger - I love reading and have a literature degree, but I think I’ve been reading and understanding what I’ve read in pretty much the same way since I was about 14 or 15 I don’t think I could take a test like this seriously - but then I also struggled recently with a thread where a poster said their 4 year old was reading ‘at university level’ - I have no idea what that’s supposed to mean? (I’m not doubting your DC is a very able reader btw, I just don’t understand these ‘tests’).

Is she happy at school? Is she learning? If yes, leave school be. They will be taking more from the texts than face value, and the source doesn't need to be at the top of reading age for this.

Get a library card, and get her books out of the library (careful on content, some teen stuff may be too grownup in terms of relationships for her) and talk about them together. Enjoy them. Pick them apart of you want to. Watch a film adaption, and find the differences. You dont need school to do this.

Instead she’s being read to, like it’s still story-time in the nursery corner.

Reading is more than just decoding. The sorts of discussions about stories that you’re so scathing about here can help develop reading skills on readers of all levels.

I have begged them to give her reading on her level. Instead she’s being read to, like it’s still story-time in the nursery corner.

That’s so sad to read - being read to is not a ‘nursery corner’ thing. It’s such a valuable activity for all primary ages and to be honest hearing you say that makes me doubt that you know as much about reading and progressing in reading as you think you do. Also, what is reading on ‘her level’ - what kind of books are you suggesting? What is she reading now?

Wow! Goodness! Thanks for all of the speed replies! (Even the few snarky ones!)

She’s writing at an early KS3 level and doing maths on level for her age. She’s not behind in anything but I guess that combo isn’t quite good enough for the race to secondary schools in London?

My issue with the reading level stuff is that she’s developed some bad habits as a result of not being challenged. She needs to slow down and not just speed to the end of the book, be challenged on reading for meaning, inference, character development etc. I have her doing an OutSchool class outside of school to get that sort of enrichment via a novel study, but for the money I’m paying (and can’t really afford), I’d really like her to be challenged in school.

She, unsurprisingly, reads all the time at home for pleasure. At the very least, for the hour before bedtime. And most other moments in between when ever she can! I can ask questions and do my best, but I don’t want my relationship with her to be as tutor, if that makes sense? I want her to have her own awesome love for learning - and from everything I’ve read, that comes down to her school making the appropriate intervention now (or 18 ago when I asked then). We moved to this school because it is small and the then head reassured me that they would challenge her at her level. Alas, perhaps just yet another sales pitch?

But I feel like I’m getting the annoying-American-woman treatment — hence the question of how to translate it for the school such that they understand that this important and necessary. (Presumably if she were behind, they would help her for her level?)

The highest reading score in most tests is 14...
17 is oddly specific anyway, a 17 year old will simply read at an adult level unless they were in some way behind?

I was a very advanced reader and I don't remember my parents expecting the school to do anything different for me I read books I enjoyed out of school and probably just put up with being a bit bored if they were reading to me.

I'm not sure exactly what your concern is, if she's bright she can understand that sometimes at school we have to do things we find too easy, what exactly do you want them to teach her?

Also I really don't think sending research papers is the way to go unless you want to alienate the teachers, it may be a cultural difference but I've not come across that as a thing that UK schools respond well to.

I agree @RainOrSun - sadly, reading books isn’t a hugely substantial part of the school day, there’s lots of other things to get on with. I think most children that age will be doing most of their reading at home anyway - so the OP could just organise this for herself.

^speedy
^18 months ago

Excuse typos... sorry! On my phone while the kiddo as at drama school!