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WWYD without making it obvious

31 replies

The20somethingmummy · 16/09/2019 18:16

A family member has recently started working in DS year 2 class three days a week as part of placement from a course she is doing in school. She will do this for the year.

DS has a new teacher this year, as in new to the school and so I have not yet met her. Last Thursday DS came home and seemed down. When I asked he stated he had been told off for wearing the wrong kit (my fault I had the days wrong as did other parents) He was basically in PE kit on the wrong day and hardly affected his education etc.

The family member also mentioned the incident to me and he was upset that DS was looking at him for help and he could do nothing. I wouldn't except him too BTW he's there to work not be family, although I appreciated his concern.

I have spoken to the Head about the incident which was my fault but now my husband is saying I shouldn't have as it will get family member in trouble.
I didn't mention family member although they know that DS is related.

There are other staff members that I also know out of school who have or do teach my children and they will discuss my children with me so I don't feel I've done anything wrong by showing concern , but WWYD?

OP posts:
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The20somethingmummy · 16/09/2019 18:17

Sorry not sure why it randomly started changing he to she at the top 😳

OP posts:
LolaSmiles · 16/09/2019 18:21

The teacher hasn't done anything wrong. They've told a child they're in the wrong kit. Unless it was more than a word then I don't see the issues

Your husband is right on this and I'm actually more concerned that staff in school are regularly discussing your child with you. Every school I've worked in that would be classed as blurring boundaries and really unprofessional.

For example, I teach a few of my colleagues' children. If I wouldn't call home for another child then I wouldn't mention it to their parents because I happen to work with them.
Equally, because my colleagues have children in school they are friends with parents in the same year. They wouldn't be reporting back on their kids and issues because it's totally out of order.

It sounds like a place where too few people seem to have professional boundaries in my opinion.

Lulualla · 16/09/2019 18:21

I don't understand. Your son wore the wrong uniform, as did other children. The teacher told them off and I assume told them to their parents the correct days.
What is the problem? This isn't even what j would call an incident.
I'd have told my son that these things happen but it's not something to be upset over and we won't get it wrong again. I would also remind him that family member is there to work so he must call her "Ms X" and treat her like all the other teachers. I wouldn't have gone into the school about it. What did you even say? Because nothing actually happened.

SoyDora · 16/09/2019 18:24

What issue did you discuss with the headteacher? The fact that your son was told off for having the wrong kit, or that your family member discussed it with you?

The20somethingmummy · 16/09/2019 18:28

DS who is 6 was shouted at in front of the whole class. He does not choose his uniform I do and as such it is my fault and he shouldn't be punished for it.

There is also no law to say I cannot be friends with teachers in the school who will sometimes when in social situations comment that xxxx is a good boy / girl in school, nothing more.

I have no issue with any of my DCs being told off, but only when it is their fault.

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 16/09/2019 18:30

I know quite a few teachers at both my dc school, some socially and from before my dc were even there and NEVER have any other commented on who might be a “good boy/girl”
It’s blurring boundaries and your family member shouldn’t be involved at all

Passthecherrycoke · 16/09/2019 18:32

I don’t see why the head needed to know family member was involved though as your son happily told you about the incident? So you’re just a regular parent complaining about what you’ve been told is a teacher over reaction

The20somethingmummy · 16/09/2019 18:36

To be clear I didn't tell the head that a family member was involved she pointed out to me during the discussion that she was aware Mr xx was in that class to which I confirmed but stated he had not mentioned anything. I don't want him in trouble he simply confirmed what DS told me

OP posts:
SoyDora · 16/09/2019 18:37

I don’t really get what the family member has got to do with it if you didn’t mention him when discussing it with the head? Why would he get into trouble if his name wasn’t even mentioned in relation to the incident?

Passthecherrycoke · 16/09/2019 18:40

There you go then no problem the family member is a non issue

LolaSmiles · 16/09/2019 19:16

There is also no law to say I cannot be friends with teachers in the school who will sometimes when in social situations comment that xxxx is a good boy / girl in school, nothing more.
Nobody has said there is a law against being friends with staff.
I am friends with some parents whose kids have now come up to my school. The issue is discussing professional and school matters with them is unprofessional.

First you say that these staff are willing to discuss your child with them so you don't see anything wrong in raising issues from lessons with the head (which suggests unprofessional levels of sharing) and then now it's they only comment that he's a good boy at school.

If the teacher has shouted at your child in front of the whole class then of course it needs raising but the whole set up sounds very much like too many people don't have boundaries and share too much.

Elieza · 16/09/2019 21:13

There was no need for shouting just because someone wore PE kit on the wrong day. Did the family member confirm this shouting actually happened? Could your dc have felt like he was being shouted at when actually he was just told. Or could he have exaggerated the incident. Doesn’t seem like a big deal to me, struggling to guess why a teacher would shout about it.

ScabbyHorse · 16/09/2019 21:49

Pretty standard that teachers shout about PE kit. They are very often stressed out.

LolaSmiles · 16/09/2019 22:09

It's not standard to shout over PE kit and it's not ok to shout because you're stressed.

There's a time and a place for a firm tone. There is a time and a place for a controlled raised voice.
There isn't a time or place for shouting because you're stressed out or irritated.

Of course some people choose not to accept the difference between the 3 approaches and prefer to retell events in the more dramatic form (I still remember when students spoke about the time I "screamed" at someone. I didn't. I just very rarely raise my voice and the situation warranted a louder and firmer tone for a brief moment.)

EndoftheWorlds · 18/09/2019 16:47

A family member has recently started working in DS year 2 class three days a week as part of placement from a course she is doing in school. She will do this for the year.

Highly inappropriate, has she advised the school of the relationship to the child?

The family member also mentioned the incident to me and he was upset that DS was looking at him for help and he could do nothing.
Highly inappropriate. This is a potentially sackable offence (or ending of placement)

I have spoken to the Head about the incident which was my fault but now my husband is saying I shouldn't have as it will get family member in trouble.
It will and it should. The correct action from the school would be to remove the relative from the class and to issue them with a formal warning about confidentiality.

EndoftheWorlds · 18/09/2019 16:48

There are other staff members that I also know out of school who have or do teach my children and they will discuss my children with me
Highly inappropriate and sackable offence.

Cohle · 18/09/2019 16:58

Why would a teacher / staff member discussing a child with that child's own parent be a sackable offence?

I agree it's not necessarily always professional or appropriate, but quite clearly there are any number of contexts in which this would be absolutely fine.

EndoftheWorlds · 18/09/2019 17:27

I agree it's not necessarily always professional or appropriate, but quite clearly there are any number of contexts in which this would be absolutely fine.

The OP suggests that these are her friends and it is outside school. There is never a situation where it is appropriate to discuss a child with parents in a social context. If asked by a parent the staff member should direct them through the proper channels.

When do you think it would be fine?

OnceFreshFish · 18/09/2019 17:27

I also don't see why the family member would be involved. If your DS was told off and upset it's natural that he would tell you himself so there is no reason why family member would be implicated in any way.

As for people discussing your child with you I don't think it's always inappropriate. I'm not friends with my DC's teachers but if we see them at an event of course they'll remark about the kids ("she's good at X", "She's trying more at Y" etc) and general comments about the class. Nothing wrong with it at all. It would be inappropriate if they were sharing personal information about issues with other teachers or private information about other people's kids.

LolaSmiles · 18/09/2019 17:29

Why would a teacher / staff member discussing a child with that child's own parent be a sackable offence?
Whether sackable would depend on the content.
It is however very unprofessional.

Staff choosing to go off record and chat to parents about school things in a personal capacity isn't appropriate.

E.g. They may have a snapshot of a moment, but then go gossiping with the child's parent instead of behaving professionally. The parent decides that their mate's version is a full version and turns up at school kicking off.

E.g. It undermines professional trust between colleagues because what is said in the staffroom stays there. I'm not talking bitching here, I'm talking actual concerns. (E.g staff discuss whether DC needs additional literacy, but friend passes this on / they're not happy with DC behaviour and the way a group of friends has acted at playtime so they're going to lose time, friend tells parent who then comes in making a well timed claim that their child is caught up with some nasty children)

E.g. Some information in school is need to know so some staff will know more about a child than others and some might know information about a child that their parent doesn't. That's not appropriate to share.

Eg. Confidentiality issues for the child and them having a reasonable amount of privacy (say a child has requested access to a mentor/counsellor in school but this isn't shared with parents). Someone decides to tell the parent that they saw their child upset after counselling / saw the child upset today and wanted to let home know (without knowing what was going on). Linked to that, the child may be being a typical teen but in a way religiously conservative parents would have an issue with but the staff member who is a friend of the parent acts as spy passing information back.

E.g. Friend likes the student and so always tells their mate (the parent) how great their DC is in school, how they're amazing etc... The problem is that when a teacher has to call home about an issue, the parent has already been told that their DC is a delight in school and everyone loves them, they're really popular etc (can be an issue if they're not actually popular but a bit of a madam/intimidating bully because by then home have been told how great and lovely and charismatic their golden child is).

Eg. Friend who works in school tells parent of child part of a story, parent passes half the information on the sly to someone else and then Chinese whispers happens about a child, family or teacher.

I used to work at a school where a lot of the support staff lived in catchment and it was a very, very small world (most of their kids had or did attend the school). One of the interview questions was how you'd respond to the question "heya, how's Tim getting on at the moment? Please tell me he's settling down" in the supermarket. The line was clear: we didn't discuss it and told them to contact school.

coconuttelegraph · 18/09/2019 17:32

I have bumped into teachers outside school on numerous occasions and they've made some kind of comment about my child - how is that inappropriate?

One of my DCs secondary class tutor was also a parent at my younger child's primary school , she worked part time and I often chatted to her at the primary school about both DC. Are you saying that was a sackable offence?

LolaSmiles · 18/09/2019 17:45

It depends what was shared and the professional relationship between the staff member and the child.

For example in a secondary context:

Bumping into your child's form tutor and a quick, are they getting on ok, yeah they're lovely - probably not an issue, it's polite but nothing blurring boundaries

Being friends/acquaintances with the form tutor and asking about a situation in maths - form tutor should be passing comment

There's some parents at my sports club and I have taught their children over the years, I know for a fact their DC isn't getting on with their new teacher - parent wouldn't ask me about my subject and I would never volunteer anything, but would ask how DC is getting on for exams etc.

Knowing the music/drama/Pe Tecaher due to many of them also being involved in clubs and groups out of school and discussing how they thought your DC did a great job at the weekend - totally acceptable

Chatting to the music/drama/or staff and they start giving hints about opportunities etc - not appropriate

Staff discussing any issue out of work linking DC to another member of staff - unprofessional

Staff discussing DC in relation to other students - unprofessional

Cohle · 18/09/2019 17:49

When do you think it would be fine?

I know my kids PE teacher. We were at a party and he mentioned that my DS's swimming was coming on.

I bumped into my DD's teacher at the supermarket and we had a chat about a space week thing they'd just done. She said my DD's costume was lovely and we joked about it being a shame her handwriting wasn't as lovely.

Of course there's a time and a place for serious discussions and of course the confidentiality of other children should always be respected, but acting like any mention of children by teachers outside of school is inappropriate is bizarre.

coconuttelegraph · 18/09/2019 17:52

Your post wasn't there when I started typing mine LolaSmiles , I was replying to Endoftheworlds who said. There is never a situation where it is appropriate to discuss a child with parents in a social context

Never is a very strong word and I find the comment hard to believe

LolaSmiles · 18/09/2019 18:00

Being friends/acquaintances with the form tutor and asking about a situation in maths - form tutor should NOT be passing comment

(Crucial typo there)