would you consider a "requires improvement" school?

[pinklemonade84]

We've got a list of 5 schools that we would like to go and visit as dd starts school next year, one of which is set at "requires improvement" from ofsted after dropping from "good" earlier this year. We've checked the information booklet from this academic year and really doubt that we'll get into our catchment school because of how popular it is, so these other schools are all ones that tend to not fill all of their spaces

What I can gather from the report for this school is that they have a very good early years department. Although children's behaviour, persistent pupil absence and needing to close the gap for disadvantaged pupils, were all points highlighted for this rating.

I don't know whether I should go and take a look around later in September, or should I just strike it off because of this rating?

I'm feeling the pressure a bit as I want to make the right decision for dd, yet am getting persistent pressure from the in laws to choose a school that dh went to (despite it being further to travel)

Issues with children’s behaviour sounds like weak management (happy to be corrected on that?) so for me, no.

Go and have a look around. My DD went to a school that had the bottom rating - we moved and it was the only one with spaces that we were offered. It did feel right when we went round and although we had no idea of the area (because we were relocating hundreds of miles) everyone we spoke to said it was a good school and were slightly baffled that it had got a bad OFSTED.

The next inspection it went back up in the ratings (jumped back to where it was, rose by at least two of the ratings so not like it even merely crawled out of the bottom!) which has left me slightly suspicious of the OFSTED ratings ever since, actually.

I will say that a school that gets the bottom rating tends to get extra funds, it may work in their favour short-term.

I'm a bit wary of OFSTED ratings anyway, but I think Gove had the wording of the '3' rated schools changed from 'Satisfactory' to 'Requires improvement' without any change in criteria (as far as I know). Just makes it sound worse. Would you be happy if it was a 'Satisfactory' school?

The secondary ds went to and dd is at now was a 'requires improvement ' school for many years. A new SMT and more children from dd and ds primary which had, until then, been terribly snooty about it, brought it up to a 'good' and ds year 3 years ago had astonishingly good results academically. In addition, behaviour, teaching and pastoral care has improved.

There is still a snotty attitude about it but I sometimes feel that schools with 'reputations' work so much harder than those who rest on their laurels a bit

The reason it dropped to requires improvement is because Ofsted changed the ratings requirements between the inspections. Go and have a look, talk to staff, see how the children are behaving. Ofsted is not the be all and end all of things to consider when choosing a school. Honestly.

When my dcs were in Primary the school went from Good to RI and then back to good again. The school had really changed drastically in that time, but after the RI the early years really upped their game and massively switched things up (my dcs were out of EY then).

They both left with great SATS scores and some happy memories, although they both hugely prefer Secondary.

I wouldn't discount a RI school without visiting.

*hadn't changed drastically in that time.

My dd went to an outstanding rated school, they hadn’t had an ofsted for a really long time, had problems with behaviour & bulling that were never properly dealt with and had really quite unhappy staff.

Don’t ignore ofsted reports but don’t give them too much sway either.

Go and look. I wouldn't put too much sway on an OFSTED report. Why not post a query about named schools on here - you'll get some information...

I'm a Head Teacher and over the years have worked in requires improvement schools as a teacher and deputy as well as good and outstanding schools. I've always said that based on my experiences, the majority of RI schools work so hard to get back to good or even jump to outstanding that I would have no qualms whatsoever about sending one of my children to one. That said, part of my opening gambit to prospective parents is that choosing a school is like choosing a house, you know how you feel about a place and while an ofsted report can give you valuable information on paper, there's nothing that compares to seeing it for yourself and meeting and speaking to the staff and children. Good luck in your search

My girls went to a school rated 1 that was terrible, they just knew how to fill in the forms well. Lots of parents (small school) made confidential comments to the inspectors via the proper mechanism and they were either ignored or the school managed to infiltrate them.

Go visit and go with your gut - persistent absence can be just a few families that are beyond the school's influence

Dh used to work in adult education and he said when they had inspections, it was alot of ticking off points and to not pay too much attention

Would it be an idea to post in here or the local boards?

We live in Northwich on a new estate in Davenham and basically, it's looking like we want to visit
Leftwich (this is the requires improvement one)
Hartford Manor CP
Moulton
Cuddington
Church Walk (this is the one the in laws want us to visit)

Kingsmead we don't stand a chance of getting into and I'd feel hypocritical trying to get into Davenham as we're not religious

Wooo OP. My best friend lives in your area. Her DS's are in Secondary now (Weaverham High). I'll ask her if she knows the schools you listed.

My children started at a school which had an awful Ofsted after we applied, but like pp mentioned it felt a good fit and had extensive playing fields, loads of space and walking around the children seemed pretty well behaved ( to me). Also liked the head teacher and her attitude. Beginning of year 1 got taken over by Academy & shot to outstanding. However, even before this my children were learning well and loved going to school. Would not always put too much stock on Ofsteds either-some schools, particularly Academy chains, are very well practised in ticking the Ofsted boxes.

@Milicentbystander72 that would be amazing, thank you, or even if she has any recommendations that I'm missing out on xx

No problem Pinklemonade84. I've sent her a WhatsApp. I'll pm you if she gets back to me with anything.

No matter which school, I would always say visit all schools and see what you think about every school on your list before making a decision, including Davenham. You also seem to have not included Hartford Primary, which is a separate school from Hartford Manor Primary.
One other thought to consider is which secondary school you are thinking may be most appropriate in the future. The primary schools you have quoted are split between Hartford Church of England High School (question here about why you would consider if you are discounting Davenham primary because of religious affiliation) and the County High School Leftwich - an outstanding and very well thought of secondary school. Incidentally Witton Church Walk, which your in-laws want you to visit is a CE Primary as well as Davenham Primary, with a similar religious related admission criteria.

You also need to consider very carefully the information in the CWAC guide to applying for primary schools about where in the admission criteria list the schools admitted to. Because of the amount of building work in the area, places at primary school are at a premium already and will get worse.You do need as your three preferences to include the primary school which is definitely your catchment school, which will give you the best chance of an offer of getting a place. Use the first and second preferences for the two schools you rate the most and have a reasonable chance of getting in.

Church Walk is more so we can placate the in laws. Though if it did wow us, it would be a serious contender. We do know a couple of people who aren't religious, who have children attending

I think high school wise, we would probably aim for leftwich.

Would putting our catchment of Kingsmead down, not just be a waste of a choice if we're highly unlikely to get in due to how popular it is? Would it be better to aim for schools within a certain distance that always have spaces available? The new information booklet is available next week, so I can double check numbers again then

Top of my list at the moment preference wise is Cuddington. But, I'm open to that changing when we visit. When we were visiting nurseries, I had a preference from the outset that didn't live up to expectations on our visit, yet the one we chose just felt right immediately. I'm really hoping I get the same feeling with primary schools

Kingsmead now admits 45 pupils per year group and is roughly in the middle of the estate and the catchment zone area. The catchment zone border with Davenham is the main road, which with the best will in the world you do not want to be trying to cross with small children.
You will be able to see what the admissions to Kingsmead were for september 2019 next week, as you say, but in September 2018, they admitted on distance to 1.306 miles. In other words all who were in catchment zone got an offer of a place.
Cuddington is a funny situation. It is the same size school as Kingsmead but in September 2018 only had 25 places allocated due to lack of people applying for places. I know that they have had some new classrooms, so I would expect there to be an increase in pupil numbers. It will be interesting to see how many places were allocated for 2019. The other question to ask about Cuddington is what is happening over the Multi- Academy Trust which was being formed around 5 local primary schools, as that could alter your thoughts about the school.

No, absolutely not. Not for a nanosecond

Ofsted ratings don't always mean everything. Ds went to an 'outstanding' primary school but received terrible treatment for him SEN, he would have been better off at a different school with not so much polish but more caring staff. I am still picking up the pieces of his confidence as he enters Y11.

@admission our estate is literally just off the main road, it's awful. I would have loved to have been able to walk her to school in nice weather, but Im not sure I can risk it against a dual carriageway. So, we're right on the border

I really appreciate all of the advice. There's so much pressure to choose a school to suit the in laws (they got stroppy when dh and I were talking about arranging a visit for Hartford Manor, apparently we don't want to send her there because of cliques and snootiness)

The only thing that matters to me is I find the right place for dd that we stand a chance of getting into

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/compare-schools?for=primary

That's where you can find our more stats on schools.

It's also worth checking which schools are likely to be realistic options- it seems very unusual to have that many real options.

There is a certain amount of distorted info on this thread. Most parents, casually looking round, never, ever, have the in depth info that Ofsted have. Ofsted have very experienced Inspectors and, in my judgement over many years, are rarely wrong. Parents forgive a lot but Ofsted don’t and that’s fair.

Ofsted work to their Inspection Franework. RI really isn’t the same as the old satisfactory because so much water has gone under the bridge since then. A recent inspection judgement is of value.

The other aspects that would bother me is poor behaviour and absence. It is absolutely not true to say a school cannot do anything about it. Of course they can and the leadership must get to grips with this or they will never be a good school. It’s vital. I would ask what they are planning to do to improve. Just walking round will never ever tell you that.

Also: No more money is given to RI or failing schools. They have to manage like anyone else. In addition, plenty of academy schools are RI. Lots. They definitely have not mastered a “tick box” inspection. There is no such thing. It’s all about progress of the DC and comparison stats. You cannot tick the progress box if pupils are not making any. You might like to look at the new framework to familiarise yourself with the actual inspection of schools rather than the views of someone whose DH works in FE!

Bizarrely,OP, you have missed out the worst aspects of the Ofsted report. Why?

The school has not secured consistently good teaching and learning across all key stages and groups of pupils. In 2018 standards dipped markedly in ks1 and the school was in the bottom 10% nationally. Teaching does not consistently match the needs of the pupils and the most able are not stretched and the weaker pupils are not adequately supported. The Governors are not adequately challenging the Head.

Quite frankly, THESE are the reasons the school is RI. The standards in all subjects in KS1 are among the lowest in the country. Whatever you think is great about YR, they are certainly messing up KS1! Do you really trust this school to improve? How quickly? It will be messy because some teachers will have to go! Some teachers will be unhappy and it will take at least 2 years to sort this out. If the GB and Head don’t improve, longer. What you talked about simply isn’t the main issue here! Ofsted are not wrong!