would you consider a "requires improvement" school?

[pinklemonade84]

We've got a list of 5 schools that we would like to go and visit as dd starts school next year, one of which is set at "requires improvement" from ofsted after dropping from "good" earlier this year. We've checked the information booklet from this academic year and really doubt that we'll get into our catchment school because of how popular it is, so these other schools are all ones that tend to not fill all of their spaces

What I can gather from the report for this school is that they have a very good early years department. Although children's behaviour, persistent pupil absence and needing to close the gap for disadvantaged pupils, were all points highlighted for this rating.

I don't know whether I should go and take a look around later in September, or should I just strike it off because of this rating?

I'm feeling the pressure a bit as I want to make the right decision for dd, yet am getting persistent pressure from the in laws to choose a school that dh went to (despite it being further to travel)

@JoJoSM2 I have just double checked the information booklet for our area and I can express a preference for any school in the authority. Obviously, if I was choosing somewhere that was always oversubscribed, I wouldn't stand a chance of getting dd in, however these schools often have spaces available from checking previous information booklets

@BubblesBuddy I was giving a snapshot, not trying to deliberately miss anything out like you seem to be implying

All I was trying to do was see whether people would even entertain the thought of applying for a RI school. As it stands it's not even my main preference!

Yes, you can express a preference for any school you want. However, the booklet/online distance checker will tell you admission distances for the last 3 years or so. No point applying if the school is 2 miles away and consistently admits from 400m... Unless DD has a medical/special need or is a looked after child in which case it will be different.

I’m afraid your snapshot only included the second column and was therefore highly misleading to posters. The issues I have highlighted are the big issues and the main reasons it’s RI. They are in the first column for a reason.

The other issues are not great but can probably be rectified fairly easily by a decent Head. The quality of teaching is way more difficult to improve and most parents know this really affects how well DC do at school. This school has really dropped the ball in terms of standards in KS1, so when you said YR was good that completely masked the dire outcomes for KS1. I’m with your in laws. You seem to want poor teaching for your DC! They have presumably read and understood the Ofsted Report. It’s bad!

@BubblesBuddy you really have got the wrong impression from my post! Of course I don't want dire teaching for dd, like I've said, it's not even my preference!

The in laws actually haven't looked at ofsted reports and to be honest, I wouldn't be impressed if they took it upon themselves to research schools for us! They still think that you put your name down for a school and that's it!

@JoJoSM2 the schools I am contemplating are the ones nearest to myself that have consistently had spaces available, so I'm not even sure that furthest distance would come into it? Obviously that would be different if it was oversubscribed?

Err? You title was “Would you consider a Requires Improvement School”? You then described the elements of the report that you believed caused his judgement. Why have I got the wrong impression of your post? Looks a very clear title to me and posters responded accordingly. You didn’t mention dire teaching until I did! I’m glad you now think that is a problem but why didn’t you earlier?

You might find you don’t get your first preference. Good luck with your quest but your DC might end up at this school if your preferred school is over subscribed and you don’t qualify.

To get accurate advice on a school, it is best to be clear about the issues a school faces and not cherry pick. Some issues are way more serious than others.

Jesus bubbles are you the thread police? stop giving the OP grief ffs.

@BubblesBuddy sorry, you mentioned poor teaching, not dire teaching. Still, they're on the same wave length

You seem to be implying that I'm trying to deceive people in some way. And that I'm trying to do my daughter a disservice. If I was happy applying for this school, I wouldn't even have posted in the first place asking for opinions!

Our oversubscription criteria goes in this order
Looked after children
Siblings
Catchment zones
Children attending a feeder nursery/partner school
Distance

The schools that I'm seriously contemplating have n/a in the distance column as they didn't need to come down to that criteria. So for example Cuddington had 45 spaces last year and only 25 of those were used

No LiveInAHidingPlace. I’m not. However I do wonder at the value of posters giving advice on a title and initial post that are somewhat wide of the true position. It just leads to incorrect posts. So it’s wasting time and expertise for no reason. However I don’t care what school the OPs DC end up at. I did work in school admissions though but I’ll butt out now.

It wouldn’t put me off - standards for schools are very high so RI doesn’t mean the children aren’t getting a good education. It depends on what you’re looking for in a school as well - e.g if you have a child with SEN and part of the reason they are in RI is because they’re not differentiating well or supporting SEN properly that’s obviously an issue. I would read the report in full and not place too much worth on just the grade.

Things like absence levels wouldn’t bother me; are you going to make sure your child gets to school? Yes - Great. Other kids being absent doesn’t really matter much.

Behaviour being poor would bother me more. I’ve taught in schools with poor behaviour and it massively impacts the other kids. The teacher’s time is wasted dealing with that, not teaching.

Poor teaching is indeed concerning, but when was the inspection? If 2/3 years ago, they may have improved on this, either with training or by getting rid of the weakest teachers. What was the leadership and management score? If that was weak, and the same SLT are in place, i would steer clear. If a new head has been appointed, or the L&M grade was good, I would trust that the SLT would address other issues.

I worked in a school that went in to RI. It had lots of good points, but behaviour was dreadful and this lead to disrupted teaching. We were given lots more funding by the LA to help, eg additional training for teachers and so on which the school didn’t have to pay for. It’s still in RI now (I no longer work there) but in a much better place.

Beware outstanding schools - some haven’t been inspected in 10 years and have an entirely different teaching staff! In middle class areas their SATS stay good because parents pay for tuition - so ofsted don’t come back.

Definitely do go look round 🙂

BubblesBuddy, Whilst I agree with you that Ofsted mainly get it right or more right than the parents, it is 8 months since the RI inspection and things can and are changing quickly.
In terms of Leftwich Primary it is pertinent that locally it has a very high level of deprivation, which helps to explain to some extent the poor 2018 KS1 results but actually very respectable results at KS2. Other very close areas like Kingsmead are at the polar opposite of the spectrum in terms of deprivation.
I have deliberately not tried to put OP off any of the schools they mentioned because it is them that need to visit the schools and make their own decision on which schools they prefer best.

"it’s wasting time and expertise for no reason."

Jesus. It's an internet forum, not parliament.

If the OP is haply to get advice that may not be 100% correct, that's up to her. If you don't want to waste your "time and expertise", don't comment.

Right. I commented on what was posted! Are you so stupid, LiveInaHidingPlace, that you cannot see the difference between the actual report and the OPs original post and understand that this makes a huge difference to responses from everyone? I guess the OP wasn’t really looking for responses based on everything Ofsted highlighted and I’m not sure why this was the case because the elements I mentioned are the ones that are most worrying and difficult to put right.

The Ofsted report was published in January 2019. Its recent but that doesn’t mean improvement hasn’t started. There has already been turbulence at the school, if you read the report, and this has no doubt contributed to RI. If the poor teaching etc is on the way out (and that’s hugely difficult for prospective parents to judge) then hopefully improvement for the children is on the way.

Yes, admission, I do understand the deprivation but the KS1 results were abysmal. KS2 results were a result of previous good teaching that this KS1 cohort have not had. There will now be a massive catch up for the current y3 children and probably others. I think some parents will be worrying about going from YR to Y1.

Deprivation is making excuses to some extent, and many posters truly believe deprived children are just as clever as everyone else. This makes it even worse that the school could not show how PP money was making a difference. To some extent deprivation (at the extreme) explains the absenteeism and behaviour. Absenteeism does matter because it’s disruptive and stops those children learning effectively. If also means the school has to spend time and money chasing up these children and parents when the effort would be better expended elsewhere. So it does impinge on all the children. It’s just not as obvious as behaviour in the classroom and elsewhere.

@BubblesBuddy seriously get off your high horse and stop being rude to someone who has objected to the way that you were speaking to me! I was looking for responses in general about RI schools. And at the time of posting, I'd had the in laws on at me again about Church Walk and trying to hint that if we chose leftwich then dd could go home to them for lunch as they live near the schools (which wouldn't happen). So I didn't include all of the negative aspects as I was fed up of them yet again trying to influence our decisions and posted when I was feeling fed up and emotional!

Like I've mentioned SO MANY times already, Leftwich isn't even a contender as it stands. I have other preferences (though these may change when the new information booklet is released)

@modgepodge the inspection was earlier this year. I believe around February maybe. So yes the points are definitely concerning and given how recent it is, is another reason to show the in laws why we shouldn't be considering it

bubblesYour attitude needs improvement.

In all areas.

pinklemonade84 thanks for defending me. There is nothing else to say but visit all the schools and ignore bubblesbuddy's comments

My son went to a school that went from outstanding to special measures!
But believe me extra money and training get thrown in abundance once ofsted have reported the failings so yes I would send my child.

Would love to sit in on one of Bubblebuddy's governors' meetings.......

But believe me extra money and training get thrown in abundance once ofsted have reported the failings so yes I would send my child.

That doesn't happen. There's nothing.

I'm a teacher and I wouldn't be judging a school for my children based on Ofsted ratings.
I know too many outstanding schools that are exam factories with a narrow curriculum, theyve not been inspected in years. I also know of some requires improvement schools that have a much broader intake, rounded curriculum and great pastoral support.

Personally, I would read the report and decide if the weakness were likely to really affect my child and then I'd visit the school, speak to staff, maybe ask to come round during the day.

@feenie I think it must depend on the school. My school had loads of help and training from LA advisors and extra funding for subject leaders to go on training etc. I suspect academies may be different. But I assure you it does happen in some schools.

Are you an ofsted inspector Bubbles?