Simple admissions question (I hope!)

[Isitmybathtimeyet]

It looks like we’ll be moving back to our house at the end of the school term from another country. My kids are currently in year 3, 1 and preschool. I’ve contacted my preferred primary school (the one we were at before we moved, rather than the one I think is ‘the best’!) and they currently have a place for my eldest but not my middle one, and of course are full for reception next year as things stand. Although we won’t physically move until after the end of term, we will take on the council tax from our tenant and apply for places in the last week of term, so I assume that my middle one will go on the waiting list for his year, and my youngest will join the reception waiting list for the autumn. And hopefully both will be at or near the top of the waiting lists because they are siblings. I’m not missing anything am I? My hope is that there is movement over the summer for the younger two.

I doubt they will be considered siblings until the eldest is actually attending.

Really? They said they could hold the place for her for up to three weeks so I was hoping that would include the summer holidays (as non school time) so she would effectively have the place in July. Maybe I shouldn’t have assumed that?

When I moved back to the uk I appealed to get my dd in our catchment school. It was a bit of a nightmare as admissions couldn't find a place anywhere so she ended up with no place at all.

I realise it would make more sense to ask the LA all this but they are still dealing with on time applications so the waiting time on the phone is ages and emails take a week to get a reply!

The sibling bit makes no difference until one of them is actually on roll, at which point the other one may get sibling priority depending on the school’s admissions criteria. This could move them further up the waiting list.

I'm surprised they said they could hold the place. That doesn't seem fair to me if someone else moved in and needed a place and they were saving it.

Sounds very stressful! There’s definitely a place for my eldest and my middle one is in a weirdly small birth year so even if there’s no movement he’ll get a place somewhere, thank goodness.

Admissions criteria is siblings beneath the statutory LAC etc and social/medical need.

But we are moving and we do need the place! It’ll be the last week of term so they are effectively holding the place for a few days. Three weeks is the absence allowed before they could withdraw a school place from a child already on roll, so they basically put her on roll and then she doesn’t attend for those last few days.

That makes sense. My advice is to forget about it till you move. Get the place that's available when you get here and then go on the waiting list. Then is September if there is no movement, appeal. Fly under the radar a bit with the two who haven't got a place until you can see if you can get them into the school.

My middle one would be very distressed not to be at school and my youngest is desperate to start so neither would be impressed to stay out of the system altogether! But they’ll both be very likely to get a place at one of our closest schools so could go there until the waiting list does its thing if necessary. There are no awful school options within distance but I love the ethos of our old one - it’s just smaller than most unfortunately.

There is no question in my mind that your eldest has been offered a school place to start during this academic year, that is before the holiday starts. They will only be put on the school register at the point that they start, not before. Actually whilst it does not matter in your case as you are moving from a different country, the preceding school cannot remove a pupil until they know which school the pupil has moved to.
So if you want your other two children to be considered as sibling priority over the summer break then your eldest needs to start at the school this term.

Oh, they haven’t been offered it yet! This is just what the admissions person I spoke to ages ago seemed to suggest would happen, as at that point we thought we might be back in the country earlier. And other families I know who have moved back in the summer holidays have been offered places by schools before the summer (gone over, met new teachers etc but finished the term overseas). But if I’ve misread it all, or if it’s the case that they can offer my eldest a place in the autumn (there is plenty of space in that year) but then not stick the others on a waiting list till then, then that is exactly why I started this thread, so I know what the exact position is! The suggestion that the LA woman made was that she could be registered at the end of the term even if she didn’t start till the autumn precisely because she doesn’t currently have a UK school place.

Actually I’ve just checked the school holiday dates and our current school finishes almost a week earlier for the summer so maybe she could start at the new school for that final week? It’s all pretty tricky in logistics but things are never easy moving countries.

The others can go on the waiting list when you apply but will be placed behind those with siblings already attending. Once eldest has started they may be ranked higher if , for example, you live closer than other siblings.

It is possibly because there is a space and no waiting list so even if you lived in London and applied for a school with a space in Aberdeen you would be offered it. Until you accept the space though someone else who lives nearer could take the space. They do sometimes agree to hold a space for a short while, but I would check that this is actually the case. Is there any chance you could move back before the holidays and your eldest go in for a few days at the end of term?

I’m not sure any other siblings will be on them waiting list? They will just have got places. It’s London so lots of movement so I think if you’re near the top of the waiting list you’re likely to get in within a reasonable time.

I haven’t been formally offered a place at all yet! I’ve just talked through the mechanics with the LA but obviously not fully enough.

And yes. See my post above. Turns out that’s entirely possible and I think my daughter would love it.

They will only have got places if there were any when they applied or since. Others may well be in similar circumstances to you and have been waiting sometime for a child to leave.

Possibly but the LA officer said there was constant movement. Obviously maybe not in the right classes at the right time, but I know for example when my daughter was there originally that four children left reception in the first term.

And of course when we get to the point where we have certainty and I can talk to them about real time information, they may say that the siblings will be far lower down the list than I’m expecting because there are other siblings on it, in which case we will obviously reassess applications for them. Although I knew about the criteria in advance, it was the LA officer herself who said ‘of course they’d go straight to the top of the waiting list’ so rather gave the impression that it wasn’t too crowded a sibling field! I suppose if you were brand new to the area you might just go for a school that could take all your kids at once - some of them will be able to do that at least for the older two as they are bigger.

I totally appreciate the contributions on this thread by the way, thank you. I need to be prepared mentally for all the eventualities and know the practicalities.

I would say that the best time for your youngest to get a place will be in September when it is apparent that someone isn't coming, some parents leave it that late to let the school know. If your oldest is already on roll the youngest will be at the top of the list. There may well also be other families planning to move over the summer who inform the school in that last week of term so your yr1 child might get lucky then too. If you are able to move back with the eldest for that last week of term then I think you would maximise your chances, plus an opportunity to meet up with old friends and arrange some meet ups in the summer.

Is the school its own admissions authority? (Faith school, academy?)

If yes, I think how admissions are handled in practice depends on the individual school.
Our school for instance would never let a new child start in the last week(s) of the school year, or even the term. We have had a number of children leave the school, e.g. going abroad, and leaving 2 weeks before end of school year. With long notice.
Despite waiting lists, these places were not offered until 2 days before end of school year, with a start date of September. And that was only after pushing - the school had intended to have the admissions committee meet in September, to then offer the places in week 3 or 4, possibly to start after October half-term!

But I know other schools do things more efficiently, and if one child has their last day on a Friday, the Monday might see a new child joining.

What I am trying to say is, for your middle child at least, there is a good chance that if they don't offer your eldest a start date of 'last week of school year' - so DC won't be 'on roll' until September - there is equally a possibility that any spaces for your middle child that come up over the summer won't be offered until your eldest has actually started school in September.
If they are efficient, eldest should be able to start in July, middle one benefits from sibling link.
If they are not efficient, eldest can start in September, but spaces for middle one are not offered until September, so again, benefits from sibling link.
I think it might be different for your youngest though, as it is reception entry with movement before starting being the norm rather than the exception.

The other thing I'd mention is that you should check how exactly the sibling link is worded in the admissions documents. I've seen all sorts:

• a child who has a sibling at the school
• a child who has a sibling who will be on roll at the time of admission
• a child who has a sibling on roll at the time of application
• a child who has a sibling on roll at the time of application, who is expected to still be on roll when the child starts
• a child who has a sibling who attended the school at some point in the last four years

... and all sorts of variations and specifications to the above!

So it's worth being very clear about what does and what does not put you into the sibling category at your school.

Hi. It’s an LA school so the waiting list for reception is open until the end of the summer term and then it is left until the start of the new term. I’d love to get on it before the end of the summer term as I know there’s movement right up to the end of that term.

Criteria for LA schools are siblings ‘on the roll’. It does though also say, which is presumably what the admissions officer was getting at, that in cases where there is no need for an immediate change of school, they may arrange for the child to start at the beginning of term to minimise disruption. So maybe that does mean they could consider her on the roll for sibling waiting list purposes, but not actually attending.

And yes, I do live in hope that by the time things are actually fixed, a year one place might have opened up! And we originally got our reception place off the waiting list (the circumstances of this particular school are that there is a nearby school that is considered preferable by many parents, which is also prone to having quite a few kids turn down their places for private, so there’s a big shuffle round and the waiting list is quite lively throughout July!).

We were in a similar situation a couple of years ago with a place confirmed for one child, but the LEA admissions couldn't put my other child's application down as sibling until the start of the school year in September. Turned out OK - we got the one place available in the year group in the end but it was a horrid waiting game!