Teachers answering questions/helping children in SATs

[Flicketyflack]

Hurrah SATS have finished!

DC has come home every day perplexed by some children in his class and certain kids in particular repeatedly asking for help during the tests.

I am quite annoyed as surely they are tests and if teacher help the kids it does not reflect their real abilities? Or am I naive?

He has told me that he thinks it is as much as six or seven questions each test! He also suggested certain children were 'favoured' in that she helped them more than others!

Should I report this? It seems unfair on those kids that don't ask for help.

I can't comment on Y6 SATs, but as a TA I have been involved in Y2 SATs over the last week.

It seems from many of the comments on here, which I mostly agree with, that a big worry is that grades will be an inaccurate reflection of the child's ability, and will show that their ability is higher than it really is.

From my experience, it's the opposite in the KS1 tests. Lots of children can't show what they know because we don't rephrase questions to make the money easier to understand or do anything to remind them of methods they have learned to work things out. That means they get the wrong answer, when we know that with the right direction, without giving anything away, they would be able to work it out for themselves. Or they'd even do better just if the question was worded differently. Thankfully at KS1 the teacher gives the grade and it's not solely based on test results, but it goes to show how ludicrous it is that 7 year olds are made to do this in the first place.

Absolutely, NailsNeedDoing.

Many of my Y2s made silly mistakes, such as adding instead of subtracting. If I had been able to say "Now, look at that question again, what sign is it?" they would have gone "Oh yeah!" and got the correct answer. Similarly, the questions where it says "tick two" and they tick one. It's not that they don't understand the text. It's because they are 6 and 7 and they don't have the maturity to sit in silence through a test, carefully reading and re-checking every question independently.

And what about the admin instructions that come with the Y2 tests - they are ludicrous. Y2 teachers are expected to check the children don't have phines, escort them to the toilet (why?! What do they think they might do in there, even if cheating occurred to them?!) And make sure they are in sight of a clock (even though they aren't timed, and to even be able to tell the time to five minutes is a greater depth Maths objective!)

Phones!

I did tell my year 2s to turn off their phones and they laughed! In prep we had done mixed calculation sheets but guess what they still made mistakes because they are six or seven. I have just found out that we are being moderated this year and I am stressing about my writing. I am so proud of my class but know some will be given working towards because they hand write or spell like a six year old!
I should be proud that I have children who wrote streams of random letters at the beginning of the year but are now writing readable sentences that have adjectives and conjunctions in them! It's very difficult being a teacher in year 2 or 6 and I am questioning whether I can keep going.

Oh and all our year 2 and 6s went home with these this week! That is mine by the way!

Please report maladministration. www.gov.uk/guidance/how-to-report-maladministration-at-key-stage-1-and-key-stage-2

Further to my comment last week, I have since found out that some children in my child's class didn't sit their final paper as the teacher thought it was too hard. My child completed two papers, when they were only doing one. So I assume those taking two papers have completed a paper on behalf of those who didn't sit it. There was a big showdown at school on Friday with very angry parents, who were (understandably) annoyed that their child were denied the right to sit the paper. It was only afterwards when I asked my child what happened that i twigged what probably occurred, so I too will be one of those annoyed parents in the playground tonight!

My daughter told me the headmistress had given her lots of help with her KS2 maths assessment many years ago. I was very much pressured by the other parents to brush it under the carpet because they all wanted their kids to "do well".

Dis DD absolutely no favours to be placed in the top maths set in high school and then moved down a couple of terms later, leaving her with a lifelong feeling that she struggles with maths, (B at GCSE so perfectly competent).

At DS's high school forms are streamed and the top form has been given an excellent academic opportunity. Fast forward a couple of years and many of the kids in the top form are really struggling. One of the teachers told my DH (they are mates) that the feeling is that the data used to select these kids was very unreliable from one of the feeder primary schools. So mot only have kids been put under unnecessary academic pressure, but some kids will have missed out on a really great opportunity.

I do actually know a primary head who was barred from teaching after cheating. He is a very narc personality and is now climbing the pastoral ladder in a high school.

**Wittsendargh
I don't think I understand. Are you saying that some of the children did the 2 maths papers on the wednesday but didn't do the one on the Thursday and that those who did do the Thursday paper had to do it twice?

@nonicknameseemsavailable I think half of the class took two identical papers, which will be submitted (possibly) on behalf of those who didn't take them. So I was told they did two spelling papers, but both asked the same questions 💁🏻‍♀️. Literally counting down to 3:30 to find out what on earth has gone on! 😡

Your dd is in Y2, I believe? KS1 papers aren't 'submitted' anywhere - the class teacher marks them to inform teacher assessment. The vast majority of the evidence comes from the reading they do in class or in books - the test is a very small part.

Children working within the KS1 curriculum have to sit both reading papers, but teachers can remove them at their discretion (for example, if it became obvious after 5 minutes that the child had completed as much as they were able - paper 2 is very difficult for a child with little or no reading stamina.)

The SPAG paper at Y2 is entirely optional, so many schools choose to ignore it.

Kids get to a fantastic standard in Y6, particularly in writing

Yep, but then they do no work for the final half term to try to make up for the misery of the rest of the year, then have six weeks off, and by the time we get them in year 7 they've regressed massively!

@Feenie that's good to know, I've simmered now as I wait in the car park at school. But if they're not submitted, why can't we have the results until July? Why does it take so long when there's only 33 in the class?

They don't have to submit judgements until around the third week in June and so have more teaching time now to tie up loose ends and collect evidence for every single objective in the Teacher Assessment Framework - they have to be meticulous about this, particularly if they are being moderated by the LEA (every school has to be moderated around every 3/4 years). It's very time consuming.

Fingers crossed the unions vote to boycott these ridiculous tests. Would be even better if all parents were prepared to boycott them too. The sky wouldn't fall in, the government have got to many other problems to deal with.

*Too many, not to many!

Witsendargh - there is a statutory process that schools HAVE TO FOLLOW. Your DC's school too. LA moderation doesn't take place until June. Unannounced Standards and Testing Agency (STA) moderation also June.

I don't understand why you think that you need to have more information than everyone else, before everyone else. Relax, you will be given the information when this can be released.

As has been said repeatedly please ring STA if you think there has been maladministration rather then just gossiping at the school gate. Again, there are proper processes that can help you.