State vs Private (again)

[Howtomakeadecision]

Hello
I know this subject has been done to death but I would really appreciate some help.
My DS is starting reception this September. We live in London and are in a black spot for primary schools (or so we thought) and so we looked at local private schools as well as going through the local authority process. We fell in love with and were offered a place at a private school - typically though they required their deposit and contract etc before Easter, they are a business at the end of the day - and we never in a million years thought we would get a place at the local OFSTED outstanding school which usually only offers places to those within 300m of the school....
But we got a place!
The problem is now my DH has his heart set on the prep school but I want him to go to the state school. We are completely torn over this decision. To be honest we both avoided talking about it for the first few days but today is the deadline for accepting/ rejecting the place at the state school.
Each school has its pros and cons and the only thing we can agree on is that smaller class sizes at the private school will be better for our son.
DH says I am being romantic about the state school - I think that we will be more involved, there will be nicer parents, more diversity etc - and that we should just do what will be better for DS's education. Private school just does not sit right with me though, especially at primary level.

Financially, we can afford it but I still think there are better things to do with the money.

How did you make a decision?

Why not accept the state place but agree to review it at secondary stage. Class numbers and better facilities are the main differences but you know your child the best.

Accept the state place and give yourself longer to decide. You can always cancel the place at a later date by contacting your local authority.

FWIW our DC is in a private prep school. We love it and are very involved with the school. We also got a place at an outstanding state school, which I think we eventually declined at the start of the summer holidays preceding DC’s start date.

I'm in exactly the same position. Posted a few days ago, still struggling to decide now.
My dh prefers the private. I'm just completely lost atm.

I don't feel comfortable accepting the state place if there is a chance we will reject it later as it will be messing another family around - plus it will just kick the decision down the road.... AAARGH

Crystal ball anyone?

I know it’s not great, but we’re just going to reject my son’s state place after he’s been to the private induction morning, just in case he hates it!

Ds has been private since nursery and I love his school very much. However, finances are bloody tight and the prospect of moving him from private to state feels like a massive jump. I wish - and it’s scary to say this out loud - that I had sent him state from the beginning. I feel trapped in the system a bit now though and so we will continue with private.

The positives are that it’s incredibly nurturing, small class sizes, his teacher has real freedom to go with with mood of the class - if they are antsy she takes them for a walk, if they want to learn more about a particular subject she just goes with it. School hours are more in keeping with work hours - 8 till 5 is standard, and it’s open from 7-6.

That said, the money saved would have afforded us a wonderful life - and I think Ds would have done well wherever he want. It’s herd walking away from it once it’s all you know though!

OP: you say WE fell in love with the prep school. Not just DH! I find it somewhat odd you think the parents there won’t be as nice as the state school ones. I cannot really think why you would say that. How many have you actually met? Why did you look round a school that you seem to think now isn’t for you with unacceptable parents? You should have stuck to what you believe in!

I would say you need to look at the future. It’s not correct to think private primary schools have better outcomes. They do if you want Harrow or Eton but I would advise you to choose a school that will best prepare DS for your chosen secondary route. If that’s the local comp, then why pay at primary? If it’s 13 plus entry then you need a prep. If the local grammar needs coaching for years, then which school is best placed for that? Often the private schools have the larger number of bright DC if parents want highly selective secondary schools but if parents just want a haven from not so good primaries and are not thinking about next phase, then you get a broader mix and parents will be more like you, I guess. Not all private schools are great so be discerning about how you spend your money but if it has loads of sport, great art, drama and music, as well as great teaching, then it might be the right choice.

If DH just likes a swanky uniform then rethink. By the way, poor teaching in a small class is still poor teaching! You need to be certain you are paying for top quality teaching and not DC who are being coached from age 5 so they achieve highly.

How small is the class at the private? There is such a thing as too small?
How far from you are his friends (and therefore his social life) likely to be? Parties on the other side of town take up a lot of time.

I agree- accept the place for now. Try and visit both. The primary will probably have a summer fair or something you could go to to get a feel for the place.

Yes, I did fall in love with it as I didn't think we would be offered a decent state alternative.
Maybe you are right about the parents but the local reputation is that the school is for parents who want to outsource their child's education. Plus it is the only one locally that isn't academically selective and so the children that go there are seen as less bright (we missed all the deadlines for the selective reception places). Yes, the facilities are much better but I have no idea about the quality of teaching - how do you judge that from an open day?

Secondary options are pretty dire in the state sector and so we would be looking to private school from yr7 although some schools start at yr3 so we could consider "state until 8".

ninja that is what I am worried about. We have enough put by that we can pay for the whole of primary but if my DH (who earns more than me) lost his job I don't know how comfortable I would feel at shelling out £££ each term.

chocolate that is a good point - he has a settling in day at the beginning of June.

seeline it is minimum 15 and maximum of 20 but there will be 3 classes at reception.
Children come from all directions, some live miles away but the school is near where their parents work. We are a mile away.
State is 30 (unless they are forced to take more) and one form entry. Children will all be within 1km I imagine, we are 450m from the school.

OK, you say you fell in love but it sounds like you don't like the private school.

Go for the state school. You can move him if unhappy with your choice down the line.

I’d accept the state school place for now to give you more time to decide.

Visit both schools, try and get a good feel for both of them. And how small are the classes?

I’d definitely be wary of making assumptions like “we will be more involved, there will be nicer parents, more diversity etc” unless you’ve got something to back that up.
Like if you want to be more involved, ask things like which school has the most active PTA or encourages parent volunteers.

What are the names of the schools? Some here will know them. You say prep - so 11+? If you do state primary, will you stay state all the way or do 11+ from state, which is much harder?

I don't even see why this is an issue, the state school sounds much better! You just need to convince dh.
Has your ds expressed any preference from the time he's spent at both?

Hi OP

What are the destination schools that the private school sends their children to? Are they schools that you would be happy with? Ultimately, prep schools live and die by their leavers’ destinations.

Private schools are businesses. They want your money. They spend huge amounts on glossy advertising to lure you in. The ads play on insecurities with the underlying message being that if your DC do not get ahead at 4 they will fail in the race of life. Your DH has been taken in by this.

An outstanding infant/ primary will deliver everything that a prep will deliver but without the awful pressure that preps put on their 4-8 year olds. All the pre preps care about is getting their 8+ leavers into St Pauls and Westminster and they are unrelenting in their demands. The irony is that this cohort is then joined at 11 by a large group from the state system who have had a much more relaxed start.

True, preps have sport and music on tap- but in London you can access much better sports tuition through clubs with a far larger cohort of talented children. Standards are way higher than those in small preps. And you can employ the same tutors for music. Just a bit more challenging to organise.

Go for the state option. Your child will have a better start in life. And if you change your mind you can move back to a prep at any stage between 8 and 11.

My children's prep school doesn't send anyone to Westminster or St Paul's!

We had 3 DDs and they went to an assortment of state and private depending on their needs and the availability of places at the time.
The conclusion we reached was that ALL schools have good and bad aspects, the only difference being that some cost us money and some did not.

All the girls did well and went on to higher education and are awash in qualifications of one sort or another.

The only really bad thing was that one of the private schools was single sex - I would definitely say avoid this.

The only really bad thing was that one of the private schools was single sex - I would definitely say avoid this.

And I would say the exact opposite, especially for girls, so it really depends on your own viewpoint and experiences.

@Mishappening

We had the same. And the outcomes for those who had ££££ spent on their education were no better than those who were educated for free. All ended up with good grades and places at good universities.

A supportive family which values education and reads books will - with a bit of extra effort and a good state school- deliver everything that a private school can offer. And that applies in spades at infant and junior school.

The reason I asked what schools the private school send their kids to is that the OP doesn’t sound all that happy with the state secondaries near her. I’d be surprised if a non selective prep school expected all their children to go to Westminster / St Paul’s / similar (but it does look better for them if a couple of the brightest kids go to places like that).

Part of the purpose of a prep school is to help parents identify which senior schools would be right for their children and help them get into them. If the leavers’ destinations don’t fill the OP with enthusiasm then that is important.

I think I might know the prep. Does it habe orange in its uniform?

OP - if you in Central London where entry to competitive secondaries is extremely competitive - the strategy of state for primary then private for secondary is highly risky.
Especially if you have boys and want to try 7/8+ - the difference between the material covered and exam prep at that age is huge.
Even at 11+ pre-test stage for 13+ schools - it’s still not easy for state school kids to compete with prep kids that spend more then a year with gradual preparations for the exams.
It’s not impossible - but it is quite stressful for the state school kids to do all the extra work to compensate the lack of exam preparation.

So - if you can afford the private - and our away moral reasons for the school choice - and try to use quality of education - I’d score the private school’s website and figured out where that school feeds into.
Because this is the best indication of the quality of education.

It is not true that people send kids to private school to outsource education. In fact - you’ll find that kids in private schools have very involved parents very focused on their kids’ education.

You need to visit both schools during a working day, not just an open day. You can look at behaviour in the classroom, exact size of classes, classroom displays, if the children are engaged and whether the children are enjoying their work. Does the classroom fill you with enthusiasm? Have you asked about homework? How do they teach reading?

Destinations are important if you don’t like the local comps. Why pay for a school that doesn’t meet the needs of you and DC?

As an example: a little prep near me takes children who are a bit “delicate” and won’t fit into state schools because they will be swamped, according to their parents. There is little sport because there are only 140 in the school including the nursery. It has uninspiring art, no indoor sports facility and music is average to say the least. It’s cheap but no one goes to a top school from there. It’s a haven from the real world. It also has so few in the top years it’s a wonder it’s still going. Contrast that with a girls’ prep school about 10 miles away. Great results for scholarships into the very best schools. Superb sports teams with coaching. Indoor pool. Girls win art scholarships and music is outstanding. You pay more but you get more. It’s vibrant. You are also likely to get your desired next school either at 11 or 13. It’s totally different. Neither of these are London though but not all preps are the same. The parents are not the same either it has to be said. They are almost exclusively higher qualified at the latter school and many are richer. Many at the former muddle through financially.

The state school you could have may well do a decent job. You have to decide if you want the “extras” the prep might provide. What secondary school do you really want? Would you move to get into a better area for secondary education? The parents I know plan this (from birth??!) Choosing a prep is the first step of the plan. It’s not flight from a state education. At the not so good prep, some parents cannot afford secondary private schools. The children don’t pass for the grammar school. They then end up at the local secondary moderns so what advantage was gained? None at all.

non-selective preps will very rarely send to St Pauls or Westminster. In NW London they largely send to Mill Hill, with a smattering to more academic places like UCS, Habs, Highgate and some to the places further out like Aldenham, or to boarding. They will occasionally get a super bright kid who will go to St. Pauls or Westminster but it won't be an every year occurrence.

OP I would make this decision based on your plans for secondary. State to private at the 11+ can be done but it's damn hard.