State vs Private (again)

[Howtomakeadecision]

Hello
I know this subject has been done to death but I would really appreciate some help.
My DS is starting reception this September. We live in London and are in a black spot for primary schools (or so we thought) and so we looked at local private schools as well as going through the local authority process. We fell in love with and were offered a place at a private school - typically though they required their deposit and contract etc before Easter, they are a business at the end of the day - and we never in a million years thought we would get a place at the local OFSTED outstanding school which usually only offers places to those within 300m of the school....
But we got a place!
The problem is now my DH has his heart set on the prep school but I want him to go to the state school. We are completely torn over this decision. To be honest we both avoided talking about it for the first few days but today is the deadline for accepting/ rejecting the place at the state school.
Each school has its pros and cons and the only thing we can agree on is that smaller class sizes at the private school will be better for our son.
DH says I am being romantic about the state school - I think that we will be more involved, there will be nicer parents, more diversity etc - and that we should just do what will be better for DS's education. Private school just does not sit right with me though, especially at primary level.

Financially, we can afford it but I still think there are better things to do with the money.

How did you make a decision?

OP - Same boat & watching.

Our plan is to visit the state option (again) and evaluate. Our situation is further complicated by the fact that the indie is not a prep but a junior, highly selective and 4 miles away. Not going to be an easy decision! Secondary will be either grammar or indie - we have a number of options in a 5-6 mile radius.

OP - in your situation & having used a non-selective prep before I'd go with the state only because as previous posters have said, a non selective will be a 'better experience' in some ways but won't get you to your goal post any more than the OS state option.

My 2DS have been in private since reception and are now Year 11 and Year 9

Reception school fees were 7k I think and now we are paying 40k per boy per year is extras for a famous London boarding school.

They are amazing boys with bright futures hopefully!!

But it's a hell of a lot of money!!!

Similar story here: after a lot of discussion & angst we are going with the state option and will aim to move at 8. I loved the prep we had a place at and its exit results are very good but it is a lot of money with Brexit looming. The commute was not horrific (bus and a five min walk) but nothing like the 5 minute walk to the state option. The state option was on The Sunday Times’ top hundred primary schools this year and we will supplement at home to try to get the result we want for transfer at year 3. I originally loved the prep because it saves considerably on the 7+/11+ hassle but I’ve come round to DH’s logic. I also think DD will be happier with her local chums from pre-school. I also think we will be happier with the state parents - absolutely nothing against the prep parents but there is a real risk we would be complete paupers by comparison. Quite a few £7m+ houses. Not our league at all!

I released our prep place yesterday. I didn’t want to pay a term’s fees on top of the deposit and I also didn’t want to leave it late. They are businesses but there is a four year old (and her parents) that will want the place and will be better off going to the induction events.

I would suggest the local state school at first and potentially change at 10 (for year 6 and 11+)

I don’t really believe in “leagues” of parents. I’ve seen it occasionally but it’s not the norm.

DD2 was at school with girls whose parents had large country estates, London houses, well known people and titled people. We talked. I didn’t expect or want to become best friends with them. However I was included in every parent event, did quizzes, fetes and balls etc, DD went to parties and generally got on with everyone. That’s the key really. Many prep schools don’t exclude anyone and children make friends with whom they like. At primary, parents include everyone. The majority of parents get on.

I have come across notable exceptions at secondary but they were, quite frankly, rude. A tiny tiny minority that the majority ignored.

Thanks everyone- I ended up accepting the state place and we are going to continue our "discussions"
I guess my thinking is - is there any point paying for a mediocre prep? The destinations of leavers hardly set the world alight - mostly schools I haven't heard of in outer London or Grammars in the Home Counties (they may be great schools, I don't know). A couple go to City, none to anywhere like Westminster or ST Paul's and a couple of boarding schools.
Also, they seem to lose loads of children by year 6 (from around 50 down to 25/30) - is that normal? I guess a lot go at yr3?
It is hard to tell from the state school - there is nowhere obvious locally.

Westminster and St. Pauls are red herrings - most preps don't send to them most years

I'd be more interested if N London and coed, do they send to UCS, Highgate, SHHS, Habs etc. Do any go to Henrietta Barnett or the other grammars?

I think it's really good to have an option to go to a private school, even it's mediocre.
Advantage of going to private is you have small numbers of children in class, and more say about your child's education.
Your dc may thrive in state school. That's great. But have an option to move somewhere more likely to suit your child's needs if it doesn't work out well in state, is a big advantage.

why so many are judging a school by the number of leavers going to westminster or st pauls? there are plenty of great secondary schools in london, city, habs, ucs, hampton, latymer, alleyns dulwich, etc, etc, why must that be westminster or st pauls? even if a preprep/prep never ever sent anyone to westminster of st pauls, it could still be a decent school worth attending.

I would say that there is no point paying for a prep that you think is mediocre. If you are going to pay for a school, you should be fired up with enthusiasm for it.

If loads of kids leave before year six, I would worry that the parents are panicking that their kids won’t get in anywhere they want so are moving them.

Out of the schools you mention, City (girls and boys) are great schools and it probably doesn’t matter that none go to Westminster / St Paul’s.

Just finishing private here. Take the state place. Very little difference in state and private provision at primary level where we are. Huge difference at secondary. He can transfer into private for year 7 if you feel it’s appropriate. Our area Sixth Form provision is far superior in the state sector too, so he’ll be transferring to the local excellent state Sixth Form College (provision at our independent is dire).

It doesn’t matter if no children go to Westminster / St Paul’s. It does matter if none of the children go to any of the schools that the OP may want.

It doesn’t matter if no children go to Westminster / St Paul’s. It does matter if none of the children go to any of the schools that the OP may want

this, exactly this.

Please don't hold onto your state place for longer than a couple of weeks OP, there's someone else who'd love it I'm sure.

A lot of this thread seems to be about the advantages of private, but I don't think there's enough about the benefits of a state primary. My children are at/have been at an undersubscribed state primary with 60%+ on FSM, lots of kids from very chaotic backgrounds (child protection register etc) and the ofsted rating has veered between good and requires improvement.

In other words, pretty dissimilar to your one, yet it's still been a privilege for my children to attend. A community primary school is almost unique in bringing people together and making you feel part of your surroundings, especially if you're not originally from London. It's one of the few places to cut across ethnic and economic divides. I know it might sound patronising of me to value the fact that my ridiculously over-privileged children have made friends with kids unlike them, but I do think they've gained perspective because of it. For the rest of their and our lives, we can walk past the school at the bottom of our road and feel a kinship.

You just won't get that at any private school.

As to secondaries - my children have got places at all the more selective schools in North London mentioned on this thread. Not St P/West because we didn't apply to them. They've done at least as well as the highest achieving kids in our local non-selective private but I notice that ours tried for far fewer schools and so had a less stressful time of it. Yeah, the 11+ process was pretty brutal but no more so than doing it from a private as far as I can see and we all seemed to use the same handful of tutors (yeah, all the kids at our local private go to tutors). My children are academic but not out of the ordinary.

Sorry an essay, but if you do opt for the state primary do so as a positive choice rather than to save money. And if it doesn't work, you can nab one of those many places go spare at the private come year 3.

OP ours are 24 and 20 now. The outstanding primary around the corner served them well (with the caveat that they did sport and music externally and they were stretched at home with good books, number play, museums, etc). Neither were tutored and dh switched to a holy grail London School at 9 and dd at 11. No tutoring.

FWIW the school lost about a third to the independent sector by y6 and if I'm honest there was a bit of arsiness in the playground at the state school over it. They did have some catching up to do in the context of grammar and foundation maths/number work but it didn't hold them back and they both successfully applied to Oxbridge.

I found the independent parents much easier to deal with because although there was a range of incomes everyone valued education and respected each other.

Howtomakeadecision - Good to hear someone making a positive choice for a state school.

I am governor at a state primary school - how I wish I had gone to such a wonderful, open-minded, nurturing school! It is truly splendid.

Go state. Spend extra cash on tons of other experiences and activities for them.

An outstanding infant/ primary will deliver everything that a prep will deliver but without the awful pressure that preps put on their 4-8 year olds

Not always. My DC are at a relaxed non-pressured prep. There are no tests before the ones they take to get into the senior school. Whereas when we were in the state system the pressure over SATs and Ofsted were relentless.

...and they don’t have homework until Year 3. Got very fed-up about my Reception child bringing home homework, one of the reasons we made the switch!

No right answers here. Would suggest you start him in State. You can always move him to private if you wish in a year or two or at secondary. If you start him in private far less likely you would ever get him into the outstanding State.

Best things about state school - community feel, diversity, more open discussion in the classroom. I know a teacher who chooses to work in state school as she feels in private schools she worked in they were more required to recieve facts but not to debate them in the same way as they do in state schools where all personalities and backgrounds can debate their views, state schools have to follow child protection laws the government hands out rather than doing things their own way
Best things about private school - Better facilities, great teaching, often more educational options, don't have to follow national curriculum, sometimes find children dont grow up so quick and are more naive than kids in state school who see more of lifes reality, the school decides what to teach i.e they don't have to teach sex education to 5 year olds or only do 3 hours a week of sport if they don't want to and can decide themselves on what they think is best
Worst things about state school - less opportunities, bullying and fighting happen more in state schools,
worst thing about private school - snobbery - i know someone who was bullied because they were the only one in the class who didnt have their own pony, less diversity, more academically focused which can see the arts as a side subject of very little importance, more pressured, might think everyone has money and be prejudiced or think they are better

Its up to you to look at the pros and cons and decide whats best

Glad you said it was up to the op dolphin. I rather hope the op will take what you have said, third hand, with a v large pinch of salt.