Appeal Primary School Place - Urgent Help!

[Lama3]

I have seen some old threads relating to appeals with some great advise, so I am hoping that some of those people that understand the appeal process are still around to help me with mine.

I have just learnt that my daughter did not get into any of the three preferred schools.

She has been allocated a school that is literally next door to me and is outstanding, however I am worried sick as I truly believe that this school is not suitable for her and so I am wishing to appeal for the first preferred school and am after some advice of what my chances might be and what to fight against.

My daughter has a severe visual impairment with nystagmus and photophobia (effected by the light) and has a visual impairment teacher that visits her at her nursery.

She is extremely capable and gets around areas she knows very well, but her vision is diminished by certain light and especially outside.

The school I wanted her to go to is a new build and also has a special school connected to the building, so there are two levels to it, and ramps where there are also stairs. The outside area is Astro turf and is basically built purposely to help children with disabilities or SEN. They even shout loud about this on their SEND report - and state that all their classrooms have equipment to help hearing and visual impairment.

The school she has been offered is a traditional old school with blocks here there and every where. Although it is predominately one level schooling, there are certain steps intrude narrow hallways, and outside are lots of different areas and steps with a large field with different areas to go to. The classrooms are also more narrow and the area that the whiteboards are located are right next to windows that would make it near impossible for her to see properly. I am aware that the school would have to make provisions to accommodate her, but I think you can see why I am worried about this school.
Knowing my daughter, she will feel more excluded from groups due to the narrow rooms, and lose her independence of going outside as she will need mor whelp to be able to see the depth perception of the steps etc. Don’t forget, she has a problem with this at the best of times, never mind when kids are running and pushing around.

I did note in my application that I was applying for the school under medical grounds and briefly told them why, but this was obviously not taken into account.

I would also note that last year we would have been in my preferred school catchment area, however this year the catchment has literally halved. I am gutted as I wound probably have moved closer had I even thought this might happen, rather naively not thinking it would.

I am also a little annoyed as he visual teacher said there was no point going for an ECHP as she probably wouldn’t get it as she is hitting all her targets but that she probably will for secondary school, but now I am wishing we had tried, because it is all very well her hitting targets now, but It is know good if she starts to not hit then because she is in the wrong school!

Anyway, I know I have gone off a little, but can anyone advise if I have a case and if so, what am I appealing? A mistake with admissions, or that the detriment to my daughter not attending the school far outweighs any detriment to the school in taking an extra child.

I will just add that they school is currently at 30 children so she would be a 31st child if they upheld the appeal.

Thank you in advance for any info x

The experts will advise I'm sure, but in the meantime, is there a category in the admissions criteria for this school for medical/exceptional needs, and if so what does it say? And you'd need to check why you weren't considered for it, if there is one - was the evidence assumed to mean she could cope at any school with support?
In the meantime make sure you're on the waiting list for more suitable schools.

As the class is at 30, it would be an infant class size appeal, so you are reliant on showing that a mistake was made in allocations that cost you a place, or that the decision not to admit was so unreasonable a sensible person would not have made it.

First thing to check is that the school does actually have an explicit medical criteria in their admissions, and what it says - not all schools do. If they don't then it's irrelevant. If they do, then you would need to try and argue that she should have been considered under it.

So You need to find out if they considered her under this criteria and rejected her, or didn't consider her at all. Did you actually tick a box showing you were applying under medical criteria or just write in the comments box? being considered under medical criteria normally requires significant independent evidence that that this is the only school that can meet the child's needs, which is up to you to submit.

It would be possible to submit that evidence now if such a criteria exists, which if accepted would push her right up the waiting list, but that is a separate process to the appeal.

Agree with PatriciaHolm.

Even if they don't have a specific category for medical needs it may be possible to argue that the decision to refuse admission was unreasonable on the basis that it has left her allocated to a school that is not fully accessible for her. However, if you have to go down that route it won't be easy. But it is certainly worth a try.

Hi everyone, I have had major problems with my login today sonce posting this thread, which has now caused me to set up a new user name, but I was anxious to get on here to thank you all for your advice.

There is no admission criteria on medical grounds. It is the standard, liked after children, siblings and then distance. Obviously the EHCP too.

The online application was very basic (Birmingham Council) and only asked if she had a Sen statement to which I had to click no, however when you go into the choices of your preferred school, it then aska you on what grounds are you choosing that school. You could then choose things like siblings, or medical etc.

I chose medical and then wrote some information as to why she should go to that school, however unlike the appeals form that I have glanced at, there wasn’t an option to attach files or anything l, it was simply a note box, much like this Mumsnet reply to the thread.

I really don’t see the point in asking that question if they are not going to look at it and query it at all?

With regards to the appeal, my next planning action is to meet again with the school she has been allocated, so that I can view it properly and to take notes of the areas I see wil be an issue. I will also discuss with the SENCO how they will make certain provisions for her to ensure she still manages to keep her independence, however there are still massive restrictions on what they can physically do when it comes to the actual layout of a school internally and externally in terms of steps etc.
I am going to be very upfront with this school to say it concerns me that it isn’t suitable for her needs, but obviously in a way that is by no means putting the school down in anyway. would the SENCO have to be honest and say whether they felt they wouldn’t be able to meet all the needs for my daughter in the same way the other school would, it what I am realistically going to get from the SENCO to support my appeal if at all?

Also, should I go to meet the headteacher or SENCO of the school I am appealing for her to attend, or are they not going to look at me very fondly in trying to raise their class numbers? I just thought that if I can get them on side a little, it may help my chase, even if they are legally entitled to fight against having an additional child in reception?

Also, without my knowledge, on offer day, I told my mum of what had happened, and her being an ex journalist, she went and contacted the local councillor for my ward. We had a reply back today for him stating that if we sent the appeal to him, he would write to support the appeal.

He obviously knows the provisions available at both schools and wants to help.
Now my query with this, is this going to help at all, or am I going to annoy the panel that we have gone to a councillor? I am going along the lines that this is a councillor that knows the actual schools and that the panel won’t actually be aware of each individual school?

I will also be reasearching if the school has taken on any other children in the past and if thay hindered them, and also medical evidence and letters from nursery and vision teacher, so I am going to fight this tooth and nail, but I am so worried that the outcome is most likely going to be the same!!

How am I able to push myself further up the waiting list if I am low down it. As this is another area that might help me!

Thank you for reading my extremely long messages, oh and I apologise for my very poor spelling and grammar in the first post. That’s what happens when you write using an iPhone. I will most certainly be using an actual computer to write my appeal.

Actually, how long should the appeal letter be?

Take all the help you can and provide as much information and reports as you can. We even employed a specialist barrister for ours.

In the meantime request an appointment with the SENCO at your allocated school and discuss everything and see if they feel that honestly they could provide for your daughter-you could them add this to your appeal.

MrsElijahMikaelson1

What grounds did you fight your appeal and did you win?

I have nothing to add to what others have said about your immediate situation but having seen which council it is, you are need to be prepared to fight really hard to get your daughter support. I would be applying now for the ehcp and be prepared for them to say no to an assessment which you can then challenge at a tribunal. Their sen provision is majorly underfunded and getting a place at any school which offers any extra support or provision for a child with sen is very difficult.

I really don’t see the point in asking that question if they are not going to look at it and query it at all?

The Admissions Code requires them to ask parents why they want a particular school. It can be useful in that sometimes it will alert the LA to the fact a child should be in a higher admissions category. But in general it does not form any part of the admissions process. Having said that, you used the space to tell the LA of your daughter's condition. This allows you to argue that the refusal to admit her to your preferred school was unreasonable.

would the SENCO have to be honest and say whether they felt they wouldn’t be able to meet all the needs for my daughter in the same way the other school would

Impossible to tell. The SENCO may feel that the school will be fine with reasonable adjustments. Even if they do think the school cannot meet your daughter's needs, it is unlikely they will support your appeal.

just thought that if I can get them on side a little, it may help my chase, even if they are legally entitled to fight against having an additional child in reception?

They are required to oppose your appeal. It may help if they are sympathetic but I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Now my query with this, is this going to help at all, or am I going to annoy the panel that we have gone to a councillor? I am going along the lines that this is a councillor that knows the actual schools and that the panel won’t actually be aware of each individual school?

Getting a councillor involved is unlikely to help. I don't know why you think the panel won't be aware of the individual schools. It is likely that, between them, the members of the appeal panel will know the schools. And you can tell them the important points yourself just to make sure. It won't carry any additional weight.

How am I able to push myself further up the waiting list if I am low down it

Short of moving closer to the school there is nothing you can do. The waiting list is decided purely based on the school's admission criteria.

Actually, how long should the appeal letter be?

Entirely up to you. It needs to be long enough for the appeal panel to be able to understand the main points of your case. However, remember that the panel will hear a lot of cases and have to read all of the submissions. They won't thank you if yours is a mini novel, so don't make it overly long.

I would apply for statutory assessment today. If they agree to do it and then do it to required timescales it might just come in before September.

You need an EHCP on your side here.

prh47bridge

Thank you so much for clearing up all my points.

I think I knew what your reply would be with regards to the SENCO and headteacher, but thought I would clear that up.

Actually you are right with your comments on why I think the panel won’t know the school - I don’t know why I came up with that conclusion actually, and should trust the fact that they know exactly what they are doing, but i suppose it is for me to explain the hurdles with the allocated school as opposed to the preferred one anyway.

With regards to the waiting list, I have seems a few people mention that there is a way to push your way up if there are medical reasons, hence my query on this, although I did wonder how that would work.

Less is more I am thinking with regards to the appeal. As long as I am clear and precise and showing the evidence required, I am assuming that I be able to further explain my appeal in the hearing which I think is better when put into actual words?

reefedsail

I was thinking just that, but could having an EHCP work against me at all? Do I get a say with whoever arranges the plan as to what school I would like her to go to, and what will they be looking at when stating a particular school?

My preferred school is just a state school and not one that specialises as such in VI (visual impairment), but due to its new build and the special school built next to it, it has been built with disabilities in mind, and as I think I may have mentioned previously, all it’s classrooms have visual apparatus to help with learning, and they boast about the “classroom management and organisation accommodate children with physical, hearing and visual impairments”

On their accessibility plan, they also state;
“the school is situated in a brand new building and physical access is considered a strength of the school”

I am hoping with all these points and a few others that I have, that they would agree that this school was suitable, but I just don’t know how it works and don’t want to put her into a worse position, if they allocate a school miles away, or if there is a chance of losing the current allocated school? (I want to choose if she goes to it or not, but not have the choice taken away from me)

All of this is so nerve wracking. I have been so concerend about my daughter starting school for a long time as I know she will have hurdles along the way and potential bullies becksse of her condition, but rather naively, I didn’t think one of the battles I would have is not being able to get her into the best school for her disabilities, and this waiting game is a killer!

Constipatedcat

Sorry, I only just saw your comments thank you, but yes, I agree I am going to have a battle on my hands with the LA. I struggle with them at the best of times, and especially with SEN Help!

If they say no to the assessment, on what grounds am I taking them to a tribunal?

Can you apply for an EHCP now? At least if it's in motion it could show you're being serious about the appeal, and when it finally comes through it would then bump you to the top of the wait list of your preferred school or even get you a place there and force them to take your DD? I'm no admissions expert but I've been involved in EHCP reports.

The appeal grounds would be an appeal against refusal to assess which is fairly straightforward to appeal. Have a look at the ipsea website. It has lots of good information and model letters to send to the local authority.

Ok, I will get the EHCP started, so at least I have the appeal, the EHCP and possibly even the waiting list that might help get her in there!

I might even have to take her to the school on the first day of term and hope no ones notices!

It may be a while, but I will keep you updated as to how I get on, so that it may hopefully help other people in the future too!

I feel quite charged up now with all the information to hand! X

There is a great deal of misinformation around who can get an EHC plan and believing that you need to have special educational needs is one of them.The clue is in SEND, where the D is disability and from your description of your child it certainly potentially applies. However different LAs have different views on what issues need to have an EHCplan and which do not. The only people who can answer that properly are Birmingham LA and in that context your VI teacher may have done you a dis-service by saying you will not get one at primary but maybe at secondary. I question what the difference is other than there will be more pupils. You should pursue getting an EHCplan.
You need to appeal for your preferred school but need to accept that given that there is no formal medical / special needs criteria and it is an infant class size case that the potential for success is low. You need to go to the school offered and try and establish what they can and cannot offer and make it obvious to the school that you are expecting them to make "all reasonable adjustments" so that your child will be as well catered for as possible.
The LA as the admission authority at appeal will argue that all primary schools can make reasonable adjustments therefore there is no reason to go to the preferred school. It might be that your strongest argument is actually getting the allocated school on side that the level of adjustments necessary is too much for the school to be expected to make. You will in all probability not win such an argument at an appeal but the allocated school may "win" that argument in private discussion with the LA.

Do I get a say with whoever arranges the plan as to what school I would like her to go to

This is the whole point of an EHCP.

OK, some parents don't get their choice because they want a specialist school but county say MS, or they want MS but none can meet need. However, it is very much supposed to be led by parental preference.

When I wrote the medical reports for EHCP in my old job I would within reason state whatever school parents requested was best for their child into my EHCP report, with parents reasons why. I'm not sure though which bit of the entire EHCP carries more weight, whether the medical report is looked at as much as other bits.

Ok, so I think which ever way I go it is going to be a really steep hill to climb, however I feel enough confidence in myself that I can at least give this a good fight.

Just two more questions I have which I am hoping you might be able to clear up for me;

1. my daughter has been at nursery since she was 8 months old and has had the assistance of a VI teacher since then. I was with a different council initially so for the first two years until we moved and changed councils I had the teacher every single week. I now only have one once or twice a term. So my query is, at 4 years old she is hitting all targets and in some areas particularly with being told what work to do and not getting up until the work is completed etc, she is above her age range, so I was informed by her current VI teacher that it would be unlikely she would be given the assessment for an EHCP as you can only get one if you are falling behind with where you should be at that age, however there is a good chance she will require one doe going into secondary school or perhaps a few years younger than that due to the extra work she will have to do and require help with. Is this true, and is there a way I could argue that point due to the fact that she is only young and has had assistance to get herself to that point.

My worry is, is that it is all very well her hitting her targets now, but she is in a private nursery setting with less pupils in her class, and more “teachers” to fewer pupils, I can imagine it is an entirely different environment being in school setting with 30 pupils and potentially only one teacher in the room, and I don’t want her to have to fall way behind before I can’t get the help.

She is a sensitive child and whilst not necessarily a follower and does involves herself in games etc, she won’t jump up to lead the way of other children and needs the reassurance from adults to sometimes do things often because she can’t see into the distance and loses her confidence, and without the correct management, I fear she will get left behind.

2). If say I lose the appeal and don’t get an EHCP and she has to start the allocated school in September, regardless of how she is doing, am I allowed to apply to the preferred school as an in term application, or is this only for people moving into the area or has a problem with the school they are currently at?

At this point I am just trying to settle my nerves as to find out that if a space does becomes available at the preferred school whether that be reception, yr1, yr 2 etc, if I can move her or only if a valid reason?

Thank you all in advance. It’s amazing how one query and then replies brings on so many other queries!

My dd got an EHCP whilst achieving above average results so don't listen to anyone who tells you it can't happen.
As pp said look at the IPSEA website for clear guidance. You request an EHCNA (needs assessment) on the basis she has a disability. The LA may refuse to assess and offer you mediation if you disagree. The code of practice says they must assess but they hope people don't realise that.
If mediation fails you can go to a tribunal.
If they do assess and refuse a plan you can appeal that.
If they agree a plan you can identify a school you think meets her needs and again there is an appeal route if you and the LA don't agree.

You can apply to go on the waiting list for any school you prefer, you don't need a "reason" other than you want to! So if you do lose the appeal or don't get an EHCP, make sure you are placed on the waiting list.

My LA has a whole separate section for VI in the EHCP funding matrix. Here it is definitely possible to have an EHCP just for VI alone.

Ah that is brilliant information and I now know exactly what to do in all cases now.

spanieleyes

Yes I will do that thank you!

AlunWynsKnee

You are right about the LA hoping people won’t realise their rights, because you kind of think that what they tell you are the facts and that there is nothing you can do about it, but I am pleased to now know my rights so that I won’t take no for an answer.

I have come to the relalisation that I am going to have many more fights on my hands as my daughter gets older, and I have just got to fight for what I believe is right and for what she is entitled to!

This is the first time I have ever used mumsnet, and I have to say that I can’t recommend it enough. Every single person that has made a comment on here has helped me massively and I can’t thank everyone enough!

As I said previously, I am not too sure if people are interested, but I will update you all with the outcome of each point raised.

reefedsail

My LA has a whole separate section for VI in the EHCP funding matrix. Here it is definitely possible to have an EHCP just for VI alone

That is really interesting and will just check up on that with my LA if it’s the same with them, which would be great news if so!

I wonder why her VI teacher is advising me (through the nursery so not me directly) that she doubts she would even get an assessment then? Although, I am not impressed with her at the best of times anyway, and perhaps she doesn’t want the extra work load, if there is any on her part, in putting forward for an assessment? Either way I am not taking no for an answer now, I am extremely riled up to go, but got to wait until the school holidays are over to start anything which is frustrating enough ha!

Lots of staff haven't had experience of getting a plan for children who can achieve academically so they may believe that it can't be done. They may also tell you that if the school isn't spending £6k on supporting the child then an EHCP won't be issued.