More able child - education psychologist and school help

[Amumhere]

Hello everyone,
I am seeking advice for our child who will be four next month. She will start reception in September. We (as well people who know her) believe that she is of high ability.
Couple of things which indicate the same are - she spoke early (at 7 months of age), by 15 months she was bilingual and speaking in sentences. She taught herself to write before she turned three and taught herself to read couple of months after she turned three. She is nearing four now and can read a lot and very fast. She is good with numbers, can do basic addition , subtraction. She also has an amazing memory. For example she knew my phone number when she was two simply from overhearing me tell it to someone. We haven't done much. It's all been self initiated, with us providing her access to resources.

We are considering consulting a private education psychologist to understand more about her and what best we can do for her. She will most likely start reception in an outstanding state school (we are very close to it). While the school is considered very good in the area, it doesn't do much for more able children. So I think seeking help from a professional will also help us in advocating for her when needed. We are new in the country and don't really know how to go about it. Will really appreciate recommendations from your personal experience or from people you know.

Also, we are considering buying home next year (right now we are renting) and want to know if there are any schools in London which cater to high ability kids better compared to other schools? We want to shortlist areas where we can consider buying.
We have thought of independent schools but it seems like we won't be able to afford them. Unless they provide scholarships based on ability. Do some schools provide that? We don't think we will quality for bursaries based on our financial situation.

We are really confused right now. Looking to get help from parents who have been through the same.

I know it's just reception right now. But we want her to be an environment where she is understood and where she can retain her curiousity.

Thanks for your time. We really appreciate your inputs.

Thanks @anniehm. I understand that all kids learn at different pace. I also understand my own daughter and my question was seeking advice to help her understand better. And provide the support she needs and if she needs it.
I also believe that her happiness is foremost and hence the question. We chose her nursery only based on the fact that they spent a lot of time outdoors in the woods and the playground.
I gave a background of her only so that people who have been in similar situations could comment knowing more about her.

You will find a lot of schools, people on here, other parents etc think you’re an awful mum who has hothoused your child academically and ignored all her other needs (which they will assume aren’t met). It’s a hard thing to discuss.

Anyway, ime a primary school will not cope well with a very high ability child but you can manage it by seeing school as socialisation and seeking challenge and like-minded friends outside school. Music is good for this, but try lots of things and see what your dd enjoys.

Coyoacan - exactly. Most preschoolers who are read to won't learn to read that way, though of course if you've never been read to or seen a book it would be technically impossible.

The most important things for all human beings is that we feel safe and loved and I'm sure the OP knows that despite specifically asking about her daughters education.

So regarding education-- being able to assess "high aptitude" is possible at 4 though is more reliable slightly older (6 to 8 ) which is when testing for gifted programs began in my school district in the US.

There are many definitions of giftedness but internationally an IQ of circa 130 and above which represents the top 2% of the population is most often used. At this threshold specialist education interventions are seen as beneficial to provide the appropriate level of challenge. A typical 2 form primary would have at least 1 moderately gifted pupil per year.

The main issue identified by researchers is that if a child isn't appropriately challenged in primary school, depending on personality they may:

1. Underperform and disengage from school due to boredom. Become focused more on the social aspects of school.
2. Coast through primary school doing very well if they are conscientious by nature, but develop no resilience to challenge / failure. Once the work becomes harder they have no study skills and may have internalised the idea that having to work hard means they aren't smart any more, which of course isn't the case. At that point (be it in secondary school or university) these kids can totally fall apart academically. A coaster who does okay but who all their teachers say is capable of much more is another outcome on this spectrum.

People tend to think that a clever child will do well anywhere but that isn't the case so its worth thinking about where would support your child best.

Both state and independent schools can offer appropriate strategies to challenge the most able. It mostly revolves around differentiation (beyond the normal top set work), acceleration in certain subjects, enrichment and extension / open ended work.

Not all indies are good at this and some state schools have very well developed programs for high ability children. Do your research on the schools near where you live.

Best of luck!

If you haven't read it, I'd recommend reading the book Mindset. Teaching a growth mindset at home and not emphasising how clever your DD seems to be very important.

Kids feeling labelled (not saying you are doing that) can be counterproductive.

LondonGirl83, I totally agree with Richmal. If a child with an ability has never been exposed, do they figure out how to themselves? I don't think so. So, I do agree the child who learned to read themselves still needed some kind of exposure, like parents reading, watching tv, etc. I don't think her opinion is that extreme at all.

Instead of an ed psych get her assessed with potential plus - membership reduces cost, and they'll do a report for the school and the school can call them to discuss it

Irvine, this point that some external exposure is needed to learn something is so obvious its virtually a tautology. There is no scope for anyone to disagree about it which why it is a strange point to bang on about.

Why keep derailing every thread about this extremely obvious thing rather than posting a response to the actual questions posed by the OP?

It also depends a lot on the teacher. An NQT, however lovely and keen and hard-working, generally doesn’t have the experience and resources to differentiate as widely as necessary. Some teachers are great at it, and will make sure that even though some of the work is repetitious and easy to the point of tears / refusal, there are enough interesting / challenging bits to keep your child engaged with school. Others assume that your child just isn’t that bright and you’ve somehow coached them (no idea how I would have done that, it’s their curiosity and speed of learning that makes them stand out, not their knowledge of facts) and so on principle won’t cater for them.

Which is a long winded way of saying to try and choose a school with experienced teachers who can and will treat children as individuals.

London, I like, and agree with her opinion because her opinion always has positive vibe to education, and it helped me over the years. There's nothing wrong with helping a child advance with their interest, that's the message I get.

To be honest my opinion is that until about 7 years old it does no good to label your child as gifted. Some kids will learn things earlier than others but generally most of them even out and are at the same stage when about 7. Labelling them as gifted too early sets them up for disappointment later when it turns out they aren’t as gifted as originally though (eg when the rest of the class catch up and can now read just as well as them)
Also the first couple of years of school are full of lots of different skills that are just as important if not more important - social skills, learning to dress themselves, learning to organise themselves, learning to play with others, learning how to lose and take turns and share, learning creative skills such as art and music etc. Learning to obey rules, learning to question the world around them,

There is a fine line with gifted children. If you push too hard too early they can end up imploding. I am a good example of that. I taught myself to read very early (and I truly mean that - my mother had learning difficulties and we were taken away from her due to neglect so I honestly doubt she was teaching me to read while forgetting to feed us and leaving us alone for hours !) after being adopted I was put up a year in primary school (and then back down in secondary as they refused to take children who weren’t the right age for the year! So had to repeat year 6 twice) o joined Mensa when I was 12, got a scholarship to boarding school when I was 15. Went to uni. Then dropped out once I had full control of my life. I had a bright future and was constantly told I was gifted and intelligent and everyone had high hopes for me. But I wasn’t happy. There were other reasons my childhood was shit but I will remember being made to practice music for hours a day and not being allowed out to play as I had to do practice 11+ papers.

My son is also very gifted. When he started school they had him assessed by the Ed psych who gave him a reading age of 14+ but I was very conscious that I didn’t want to repeat the same mistakes and he had other areas he needed to work on (social and fine motor skills etc) he has now started secondary and is a lot more well rounded then he was when he started primary. He’s still very able and his teachers have high opinion of him and his ability.

Amumhere your daughter sounds like my son was many years ago, he also started speaking at seven months, held conversations at 15 months and taught himself to read and write. He learnt from Countdown and Crosswits so didn't learn phonics even but managed to cobble together how to read and write from working out sounds and patterns from words on there.
He went to school before there seemed to be this obsession with levels and constant testing so it was easier. I packed him off to nursery attached to the primary aged four. Three days later I was called in and asked whether they could get an ed psych to see him as they had never had a child like him. Ed psych's tests showed he was working at more than double his age and had an IQ in the top 0.001% of the population.
School was great tbh he followed his interests did maths and literacy with the top of the school and generally enjoyed friendships and activities.
Exams were never a problem, he has an eidetic memory and so has total recall of anything he sees and hears. Notes for his degree and his masters contain a title, two or three words and the occasional instruction "don't remember" because otherwise he will remember information not needed. He will start a second unrelated degree later this year funded by his employer for fun because to him acquiring knowledge is fun and he has never had to work at that.
Definitely get your child seen by an ed psych and my advice would be not to get hung up on school being constantly challenging and pushing her forward. Ds saw school as a social experience tbh, yes he learnt a few things but what interested him he went and found out and mastered it himself.

I think all kids are very different and a lot is down to personality as well as the degree to which they are gifted. One child may flounder without challenge and another may do great. OP you know your child so can figure it out.

Of course no child’s broader social and emotional development should be neglected for the sake of achievement.

In my experience the happiest and most successful people I’ve met are those with the highest emotional intelligence.

I agree with people who say that it’s difficult to find a primary school that you can be sure will cater well for a gifted child. Even schools that have a great G&T policy and ‘talk the talk’ cannot guarantee to keep up with an exceptionally gifted child (state or private). In most schools each class is taught predominantly by one teacher each year, and they are all different. My DD (now in Y3) is very able, though was not as advanced at that age as yours is, and we’ve had a bit of a ‘mixed bag’ from year to year. You can’t control which teachers your child has, and school focus can change dramatically over the primary years.

It might be worth looking at larger primaries, as with multiple classes per year there is a bit more chance of finding one or two other children at a close ability level. Obviously with a true outlier this is still unlikely, but there might be more chance of ability groups for topics, or specialist subject teachers, for example.

It seems from these forums that it is quite common for very gifted children are ‘twice exceptional’, and therefore much of the school challenges stem from supporting these children in other ways: social, behavioural, concentration etc. From your descriptions your DD does not show any obvious signs of 2E, so you can focus on the academic side a bit more. However, don’t underestimate the other learning opportunities that schools provide, in terms of social development, routine etc. Give your DD time to find herself in Reception before pushing the school too hard.

If she does want to learn more outside school, I’d agree with JustRichmal that it’s a great idea to provide those opportunities – there is no harm in teaching a child that wants to learn! However, I’d encourage her away from curriculum topics where possible: she will pick up things lightning fast at school, and by teaching everything ahead of the curriculum you make teachers’ jobs even harder, and almost guarantee that your child will be bored every day rather than just sometimes!

Instead, provide different opportunities to feed her desire for learning outside school hours. She can learn so much from extra-curricular activities such as music lessons, team sports, martial arts, chess, learning a foreign language etc. Follow her interests and facilitate their exposure to a wide range of opportunities. School is only one source of learning.

Great post, LetItGoToRuin.

Thanks a lot @Zooop. It did come as a bit of shock to me that few people thought that I was not letting my child be a child.
We love the nursery she goes to now because she enjoys it.

@londongirl83, I really appreciate you taking out the time to answer here. I will read the book you recommended. We do not use any labels around her or even otherwise. I used a label here only because I wanted answers to very specific questions. And I thought it would help people who have experience to identify my post. We are also very conscious about the terms we use to praise her and try to avoid using the terms clever, smart etc. I read a lot about it to understand how counterproductive that can be. I really appreciate you telling me the same.

I agree with what you mentioned about kid's experiences with schools. My post here was not to find a school which will make her skip grades but to find a school which understands her and can work with her so that she retains her curiousity. I thought that since we are considering moving into a new area, it would be nice to know some schools which have done well for parents here.

Thanks @greathat, we are considering getting a telephone consultation with them to start with.

@irvine, I thought it was understood that she would have had exposure to books. Self taught means that I didn't teach her to read and that it was self initiated.
However, I don't think dwelling into it can change your answers to my questions.

Thanks @Zooop, the second part of what you said is what I am worried about. The school/teachers not understanding her. That's why I thought asking here might give me some school names which had done well for children.

Thanks @BrieAndChilli for sharing your experience. That's really helpful and insightful. And I am so glad that your son is doing so well.
I am not looking to label my child exactly for the reasons you mentioned. I also don't want to push her. She does what she wants to. Just want her to be in environment which works best for her.

Thanks @fleshmarketclose, it's so wonderful to know about your son. It is also lovely to know that he is constantly learning and that's because he loves learning. I really hope that our daughter gets into a school which she enjoys and which helps her retain her curiousity.
Do you have any recommendations for an ed psych in or around London?

I agree @londongirl83, nothing comes above social and emotional development.

Thanks a lot @LetItGoToRuin. Really good advice.

No sorry we are in the Midlands. I'd encourage her interests outside of the national curriculum as well. Ds loved chess from being about three and played for the County. He loves all sport as well and played for school teams. He is incredibly social and has so many friends that he made from all his many interests and pursuits. I think it was important for him to have these outside interests because school can be unchallenging when you aren't learning something new and at a pace you'd like so he got his challenges outside of school instead.
Ds does lots of learning for fun he taught himself computer programming and did an AAC qualification and now he's teaching himself Spanish. He will complete the next degree and Masters and then he will no doubt start looking elsewhere. It's just what makes him tick.
Most of all enjoy her because the years go by so very quickly.

Why do you need an edpsych?

If she is able like you say, concentrate on her Phse and even the understanding of what she's read (speed has nothing to do with it!) Let her be, and enjoy being a child! Teachers aren't stupid and will be able to progress any child, remember though that it will be the whole child (and that may not necessarily just be the academics). Indecently I work with a child like you describe yours to be and there are several children who can read very well, but this one's being fast overtaken by those who are truly passionate about reading a story and less focussed on the mechanics (they just come naturally and thankfully minus the competitive nature they have).