Bute House +11 Results

[Knightsbridge]

They are not on the website yet, but does anybody know how Bute did this year for +11 results? Thanks.

To add another point, in actual fact, a more than typical number of girls have had boarding schools as their first preference due to Brexit. It’s also the first year we’re the current head has seen a third of the girls from reception to 11+. I can guarantee most of these family’s did not have SPGS drilled into their head as the holy grail. I wouldn’t be surprised if their “first “ choices of schools have been out of the box and slightly unusual, but fully focused on what is the best choice for their child.

We are not aggressive OR defensive just very passionate :-)
We adore our school community, the girls, the Head and yes the ethos! It may seem like the “same approach”, but come for a visit and see the general vibe at the school and how relaxed the culture is while still getting outstanding results. Nowhere in my posts will you see a mention of another schools name in a negative light, because that’s not necessary, our results year after year speak for themselves. We are genuinely trying to be at the forefront of changing this stressful culture throughout London that’s harming the kids while still trying to get the great results.

Yes, to support the "non-competitive" culture, then why still have the 7+ intake? shouldn't they take everyone non-selective at 4? 7+ itself is competitive enough. The school can claim to be "non-competitive" because they have cherry-picked the smartest girls with very supportive family.

I have been visiting the school but it really felt the year 6 that made us visit was under pressure not to say that they have extension or support and that made me uncomfortable she kept looking at her paper with some lines on it repeating we are a non competitive school.

And the poor girl was feeling bad when she we passed in front of the Enrichment learning room and said that is were we have extension and support lesson.

Maybe you should come for a visit to our school ;) as it is very relaxed as well and girls don t seem pressured at all!
I am not sure what the girls would say but when I went a few years back talk was that there was no streaming, class was taught all together.
And that teacher would try to stretch more able pupils when less able pupils could benefit from extra support when needed.

In relation to the results A few schools were presenting aggregate results figures a few years ago and they have now moved to year by year results.
I agree with you general statistics should be sufficient for parents as it gives you an idea on which school girls are going. I also think the proportion of girls going to boarding versus day school would be a nice info to have as if you want your child to go boarding you want to know if it is something common in the school or it would be an exception.

@organiccoffee exactly, non competitive ethos with a competitive assessment ;)
That is what I don’t get..

feel very hypocrite to me, as @jetsethippie, you seem to be the one to compare, saying people are jealous and that Bute has done better than any other prep school (which I don t think is true) as
-first Bute takes some of the best girls from other school, -
second I thought the number of SPGS girls was notwhat was important
third looks like FH got the best % of girls going there anyway :)

I had a look at the Bute results page, and again, don t understand why they would specifically disclose the number of High Mistress’ Award (SPGS) amongst the academic scholarship..

All those little things tend to tell me this is just a façade while other schools might not say anything but really think about girls interests..

Yes, boarding was up this year at Bute, but not well beyond the range of the last 10 years. Seems pretty consistent. As the historically three more popular schools (SPGS+GL+LU), in 2019 they are sending approximately 52% of the class to that group, which is quite similar to 2015. Granted, during much of the Sallie years it was more like 65-70%. But overall 2019 was a reasonable result and inline with historical precedence.

What should we discuss next, how everybody is told not to tutor their kid at Bute, but the majority of the upper years are?

lol
I guess that would be apply to every prep schools.

I was looking at FH website and they expect girls to be doing 1h 1/2 - 2h homework every day after school in year 5 and 6..

Well they have corrected the typo now and the list of 40 logos is now under title 2017-19 school destinations.
Agree they should be able to disclose the % day/boarding for both their periods. The prep is somewhat different and this info is relevant for parents.
I am really with them if their results mean they have not been culling over recent years. At the end of the day, even if they have girls that do not do so well as they expected when they entered 7+, they will still be at a level that they can manage altogether.
I know of non selective preps that have outstanding results and the glaring truth is they could not possibly produce those results if they did not self select in Y2/3/4. You normally see these preps at below capacity by Y6 (ie initial cohort of say 40 children ending with about 30 children or less by Y6 and majority or all achieving). These children all achieve but they are also a victim of the competitive ethos, having seen how their friends must leave the school if they don't catch up or won't get into a super competitive school. The jury is out how they really do later on for A levels etc

@DancingbytheRiver Bute does not cull the class as it gets older. They welcome students with a wide range of abilities. Also interesting is if you look at where the students who come in at Reception vs students who come in via the 7+ end up after the 11+.

@Knightsbridge have you seen those stats re what % from reception stays on and where each group ends up at 11+ broadly? That would be interesting exercise
I also wanted to say, I am fine with competitive entrance exams at 7+ etc, as it is only your choice and you can work on a fallback option, but I would not like my child to attend a school that culls to get the results they aspire to. It may be all well if your child is bright, but if not, then it would have been a mistake to enter him/her to the school. Plus the ethos of up or out at that age.

In terms of the percent that stays on from Reception, it's usually only 1-2 students that leave, and that's simply because it's just not the right school for them and the parents recognise it.

Historically, 50% of 7+ students went to SPGS vs 15% of Reception. The school denies that, but a quick review of any of the informal parents sheets collected confirms that to be the case.

I’ll say it again - Bute is an excellent school and on balance feels less pressured than the other academic preps in the area.
The non-competitive ethos work, and even when girls know who goes out for extension vs support - and they always know as early as R and Y1 - it still doesn’t change the overall feeling among the girls.
I am happy my kid went there.

However, Bute has always had a public image issue. And especially in the more recent years.
They need to maintain the inclusivity by having the ballot - and change the impression of StP-feeder as it’s harder to deliver hear days. New headmistresses, etc.
So - they have to say a lot of things publicly, while still pushing hard to prepare kids for the exams. Because In the end - results matter.

As to the performance of lottery kids vs 7+ intake - this data is never, ever discussed. It’s never openly acknowledged that there is a difference.
But of course - given that lottery kids have normal IQ distribution and 7+ kids are brighter on average - why would anybody expect there not to be a difference.
No one can make a StPG kid out of an average kid. There is no magic potion like that.

Some of the Bute parents gushing about the school, etc upthread clearly have kids in the lower years. And it’s amazing the transformation and shock some of them get when it gets to the exam year. It’s all nice to talk about ‘schools best for your child’ and creative choice of schools - but when these parents are told that a school they thought of as backup - is a stretch school for their child - it all changes.

So - Bute is a business in the end of the day, and let’s not be naive that they aren’t. In addition - nothing is wrong with that.
It is still a school that i’d happily put more of my bright daughters, if I had any....

@Jsku extremely well said!

I’m older than most of the PPs but for girls who were at Bute who are now 23/4 about 30% of the year were offered places at SPGS. For the girls who are 21 this year there were 12 Bute girls (I don’t know how many declined). There were 20-21 for the girls currently taking A levels. My understanding is that there are 110 a year at SPGS. G&L is under 100 and LU is larger but has boys & the Lower School.

I'm neither in West London nor have my children gone through prep schools (though they have done the 11+) so I'm pretty impartial. The new blurb on how they now present results really impresses me. I like that they don't do that places offered/accepted thing and I also like how they recognise that success isn't about getting into the 'best' school, it's about going to the best school for a particular girl. They must be aware that a lot of parents choose the school with a St Paul's or bust attitude and it seems sensible to try to manage that.

However, having had children at a state primary with a very deprived intake (60% FSM) and one that is very inclusive, I do laugh at the idea that Bute embraces 'mixed ability' teaching. So they manage to teach small classes of very bright well-supported girls alongside quite bright well-supported girls alongside the occasional less bright well-supported girl. My lot have had kids in their class who've been excluded from other schools who arrive in y5 completely illiterate or a child who at the end of primary still couldn't count to ten. That's proper mixed ability.

I’ll say it again - Bute is an excellent school and on balance feels less pressured than the other academic preps in the area.
The non-competitive ethos work, and even when girls know who goes out for extension vs support - and they always know as early as R and Y1 - it still doesn’t change the overall feeling among the girls.
I am happy my kid went there.

However, Bute has always had a public image issue. And especially in the more recent years.
They need to maintain the inclusivity by having the ballot - and change the impression of StP-feeder as it’s harder to deliver hear days. New headmistresses, etc.
So - they have to say a lot of things publicly, while still pushing hard to prepare kids for the exams. Because In the end - results matter.

As to the performance of lottery kids vs 7+ intake - this data is never, ever discussed. It’s never openly acknowledged that there is a difference.
But of course - given that lottery kids have normal IQ distribution and 7+ kids are brighter on average - why would anybody expect there not to be a difference.
No one can make a StPG kid out of an average kid. There is no magic potion like that.

Some of the Bute parents gushing about the school, etc upthread clearly have kids in the lower years. And it’s amazing the transformation and shock some of them get when it gets to the exam year. It’s all nice to talk about ‘schools best for your child’ and creative choice of schools - but when these parents are told that a school they thought of as backup - is a stretch school for their child - it all changes.

So - Bute is a business in the end of the day, and let’s not be naive that they aren’t. In addition - nothing is wrong with that.
It is still a school that i’d happily put more of my bright daughters, if I had any....

Just to correct myself, they do disclose the day/boarding ratio (well, kind of, none of these charts carry percentages)

@Jsku I'm interested in your comment:

"And it’s amazing the transformation and shock some of them get when it gets to the exam year. It’s all nice to talk about ‘schools best for your child’ and creative choice of schools - but when these parents are told that a school they thought of as backup - is a stretch school for their child - it all changes."

To be fair to some of those parents, do you think a bit of the misguided expectations comes from the school providing so little feedback, especially in lower years? Parents have expressed to me that all they hear is their children is performing at the expected level, and everything is fine etc. So then when it's the 11+ those parents assume that since their kid is doing "fine" at Bute that she's most likely going to one of the three most popular day schools...and then they hear those schools are totally out of reach. I appreciate every parent loves their child and thinks she's a star, but given the extremely limited feedback do you think it contributes to some of the misguided expectations? Would it be worth at the end of year 4 giving maybe a bit more direct feedback in order to manage expectations?

Because of its reputation as a feeder to SPGS, although that isn't true, they attract very ambitious, pushy parents. Some of girls arrive at school in Y3 with an attitude 'I am a SPGS material, but you are not.' Obviously the attitude comes from their previous school environment and/or, of course, from their tiger parents. Bute hates it. GIrls at Bute will be educated to run their own race and celebrate each other's achievement in a less pressured, happy environment. So will parents.

There are no formal tests, no ranking, no academic prizes, no ridiculous badges etc, unlike some other preps in the area.Parents are informed which quartile their daughter falls into, only once a year. CAT scores aren't shared with parents.There is an acknowledgement among girls who is academically super or less so, but they don't talk about it because it's not a competition. Or at least they try not to. Parents are also told not to 'gossip' about it. While sports and music are very competitive and can be boastful, they are quite low-key in terms of academics.

Head's advice regarding senior school choices is about the likelihood that your daughter will settle well and thrive there. Some girls leave SPGS after a while because it wasn't a right school for her. SPGS is not for everyone after all. Parents' pushiness of getting their daughter into SPGS will be well diluted by the time of 11+, and they look at schools
where their girl will be happy and thrive, which is not necessarily based on the league table position. Again, many of parents were very ambitious, competitive and result driven at the start, then changed their view over their time at Bute.

It might be hard for prospective parents to see how their non-academic competitive ethos work, and even some of current parents might be in doubt, but the parents who went through the process know it works. They try removing all sort of toxic that competitive environment could bring to the community e.g. boasting, jealousy, bulling, vicious rivalry etc, and to help the girls reach their potential in a happier way. Bute is excellent for that reason, not for the number of offers their girls get from well regarded schools.

As for lack of feedback, it could lead to over tutoring because parents aren't sure if their daughter is on a 'right track' to their preferred schools. This may be a negative impact of the ethos.

@CowCow19 "Obviously the attitude comes from their previous school environment"

Sorry but I disagree on this, I think that attitude comes from the parents educations. One of the girls in our school will go to Bute next year and keeps boasting she is going to a better school, this does not come from the school... She even told the teacher she wants to go to SPGS..

Historically, 50% of 7+ students went to SPGS vs 15% of Reception. The school denies that, but a quick review of any of the informal parents sheets collected confirms that to be the case.

@Knightsbridge - I haven't been able to determine from your previous posts - do you have a DD at Bute House? Do you have a copy of those informal parents' sheets?

As to the performance of lottery kids vs 7+ intake - this data is never, ever discussed. It’s never openly acknowledged that there is a difference.

Typically, that is the point where the school steers the conversation towards "first choice schools".

But of course - given that lottery kids have normal IQ distribution and 7+ kids are brighter on average - why would anybody expect there not to be a difference.

But only about half the 4+ entrants are lottery kids. Most of the rest are siblings of 7+ entrants. It would also be interesting to see if there is a difference between the 4+ lottery entrants and the 4+ sibling entrants.

@Knightsbridge

In a way it’s less misguided expectations and more a version of cognitive dissonance.
Some of the Bute parents are in a bubble of sorts and when reality of having to re-join a competitive 11+ West London world - it’s tough.....
Bute does a good job of taking the stress and competitiveness out in the early years. And I do think it’s quite special this way. But reality of 11+ is still the same.
And I do think this hits lottery parents the worst. Especially if they don’t have kids in other schools.

As far as Bute attracting pushy tiger parents - well it’s a little disingenuous to have an academic selection process and then expect that a bunch of laid back hippies will bring their kids there. People who come to sit the test - want the best education for their daughters, and why shouldn’t they. It doesn’t then mean that most parents are doing worksheets with their kids daily.

It is also not correct to say that there are no tests and rankings. Of course there are - otherwise the school wouldn’t be doing their job and wouldn’t know how kids are doing.
It’s just that the tests are done such that they don’t put stress on kids.

As I keep saying - it’s w good school with a public relations problem. It wants to live in a world where there is no pressure and competition. But that world does exist.
And this year’s hand waving and hiding of the results - sadly just means that the school is aware of it, and playing a game. It’s the situation where ‘we know, and they know, and we know they know’ - but no one admits the reality is what it is.

Could anyone help to explain how this non-competitive ethos work when they are doing competitions(clubs), PE lessons, etc... It just feels weird if I am the student and being told "we are non-competitive", yet being pushed to our limits to compete with the opponents, the team, and myself...

Would this (doubtlessly) raised "successful", but also possibly "hypocritical" kids?