Poor french teaching at KS2, WWYD?

[gallicgirl]

My DD is in Y3 and started learning French this year in line with KS2 national curriculum. School is usually very good but they really don't seem bothered about learning MFL and I feel the teaching is just ticking a box.

They use a well established program with a virtual teacher and I can understand why this has been chosen rather than paying for a dedicated French teacher. The demographic of the school wouldn't see parents pushing for good MFL teaching, they're more concerned with improving literacy and numeracy and few parents speak a second language.

However, I studied French to degree level and could teach DD myself if I really had to. She wouldn't be particularly keen on it and I feel it's more fun to learn with classmates.

So the question is, do I have a word with the teacher, not in an accusatory way, but in an attempt to find out why DD isn't learning much?

Do I skip the teacher and make a query of SLT?

Or should I just grit my teeth and teach her myself?

As an added complication, I'm a parent governor so I'm a bit narked that the school aren't performing at their best here.

It does sound a bit rubbish op. DS' primary taught Spanish really well but they had 3 teachers who had Spanish as a first language.

I agree you could offer some time yourself if you can. Difficult for the teachers if they don't speak French themselves.

I’m surprised you think children can learn a language when taught every other week! Even weekly is a struggle. For children to become properly fluent; they need 25 hours exposure at least. I’m sure you could get away with less hours, but the child would have to be keen and parent supporting.

I managed to teach my dd when she was 5 year old over 200 words in French, while I learned it myself. I’m no where near your level so you could also do this. But it takes a lot of daily persistence and repetition. Once my dd started at a French bilingual school she was fluent after a few months. But we also support at home with a French au pair, French cartoons, loads of French audio books, French music etc. My ds was fluent from age 4 (my dd would have been as well if we started earlier with her).

A lot of parents seem to think learning a language is easy. But if you speak with a lot of parents who actually try, you will fast learn it takes a lot of effort and exposure that most are not willing to give. There are children in the bilingual school still not fluent after 3 years in the school. Sure they can understand and utter basic phrases. But refuse to speak French most of the time etc. My dc both play in French with their French speaking friends and English with their English speaking friends. And they can switch back and forth when playing in a group depending who they are talking to. They do this also at the dinner table, as we don’t speak French (I wish I did! I need to take lessons and put more effort, but not easy when having other responsibilities). So they speak English to me and dh, but French with the au pair. It’s amazing really (I know there are loads of bilingual and trilingual children). But it’s amazing to me when me and dh don’t speak French, to hear our dc speak so fluently.

OP languages can't be that important to you if your French is now so rusty you think twice about teaching it to your child.

Just teach her. I went to a private school and was at French GCSE standard realistically by end of KS2.
My children in Y4 know a few phrases from school, that's it.
I speak fluent German and am teaching them that... I think in most cases teaching them yourself if you are able is the only way.

Definitely do a bit with her yourself if it’s important to you. My DD (Y3) has been going to a weekly French class out of school for three years. It’s a small group class run by a French lady, lasting half an hour, with no homework. It’s really gentle and fun and relatively inexpensive, and she loves it and has picked up a lovely accent.

They’ve just started doing French at school in Y3, and it’s very much like people have described: a short session, often skipped if something ‘more important’ is happening, and there are no MFL specialists in the school. I do think it’s a shame it’s not given higher priority, but I totally understand how much pressure schools are under. The teacher often asks DD to help with pronunciation etc and they muddle along!

I would not even bother raising this with the school, especially as you are equipped with the skills to supplement this subject yourself. Maybe my expectations are too low!

As a governor you are in a position to influence this. I know a few schools who use specialist teachers to provide ppa cover - art, pe, languages, music. If you have to pay for ppa cover anyway, use it to provide the things your regular teachers struggle with. And these schools are not all flush with funding - just your average primary who look at things a bit differently.

I'm MFL coordinator in my primary school. I expect the KS2 teachers to be teaching French for 30 minutes per week, although the scheme we use allows for a little flexibility.
In Y3 they should be learning simple words and phrases: greetings, classroom instructions, colours, numbers, food. Written work will be minimal, basic words and phrases, the emphasis is on learning through stories and songs, lots of repetition, which is hard to evidence in work books.

As an MFL coordinator I really wouldn't mind if a parent requested to speak to me about curriculum content and delivery. But I'm fortunate to work in a school where subject leaders are given time to observes lessons, scrutinise books and conduct 'pupil voice' sessions. I have a portfolio of lesson observation feedback, photos detailing clear progression of content in work books and evidence of how we differentiate lessons.

Unfortunately not all schools are this thorough and school development plans may have a host of other priorities.

I've not met many teachers who are confident at teaching French, I got a B in GCSE French 30 years ago but I ENJOYED learning it and I enjoy teaching it and I think that can make all the difference. I'm not afraid to say in a lesson 'Ooh I don't know what that word means!' and look it up in a French dictionary, after all this is what I'd expect/want the children to do if they didn't know a word.

I taught Y6 French last year, have moved year groups now, and it does get quite detailed with French grammar, ensuring adjectives match the gender of the noun etc and lots of extended writing. I visited the Y7 French lesson in the local high school - it was disappointing to see them repeating much of what I taught in Y6, but I felt confident that my teaching left the children equipped to deal with language learning in high school.

Sorry if I've waffled, I enjoy talking about my subject!

If you have the time you could offer to go in as a volunteer to help with MFL. This would also help in your governor role as you would be a little closer to what is going on day to day. As a volunteer you don't need any teaching qualifications just a clean DBS which you no doubt already have as a governor.
I have done this in maths with Y6 top table to enable them to have some differentiated work and I've really enjoyed it. I am also a governor and being in school regularly has helped me in that role but also as a parent I have a better understanding of the pressures on teachers at the moment.

It's usually pretty non existent in primary, kicking off from y7 if they do French rather than German or Spanish.
If it bothers you buy a CGP book or one from poundland and go through it with her.
Lots of cheap resources for primary and ks3 languages.

Consider the fact that teachers have to teach Maths, English and Science. Topic, History, Geography, Art/Dt, PE, PHSE, MFL, RE and Music in a week.
Have you considered taking an After School Club? My daughter went to a Saturday session and loved it. The programme our school uses is lots of fun but it is squeezed in fortnightly too.

DD's primary had a native french teacher and by the end of Y6 she had some ideas and could write simple stories (something I expected them to do at the end of Y3).

But, as others say, these lessons are the first to suffer if something needs to be re-scheduled. To learn a language you need to practice and we never saw any homework or advise to practice at home with apps.

She is now in Y7 and the French part of her year group is not expecting anything from the students as previous knowledge, the school has around 6 primaries who send children there and while some may do a bit more than others there are absolute no expectations from the secondary regarding a previous basis of knowledge.

I think it is about learning how another language work and to get some familarities but that's it.

I think the school’s attitude definitely make a difference. Also perhaps area? I’m a teacher and I know locally MFL is taught by a specialist or fluent speaker and it’s PPA time. It’s been interesting hearing how different it is in other schools! In my school children have French lessons from Reception. It seems a shame that when they get to secondary school everyone starts from the beginning again.

As a governor, at the next meeting I would raise it and suggest ways you could raise the profile of French across the school. Ask about how PPA is currently covered . Could they get a specialist teacher in?

If you live near a major centre with an Alliance Francaise they may have children’s programs (the one near us does). Also if you are not concerned about which language your child learns, but more concerned about a good foreign language learning experience it is possible that immigrant communities in your location may run children’s programs in their heritage language that might be open to others.
I learned French at school in the UK but my real interest and motivation came from spending holidays with a family in France, if there is any connections you have that would enable you to arrange something like that it would work well.

A good friend of mine is / was employed as a French teacher at a primary (big school, she covers the class teachers' PPA time). Since the school converted to an academy in September, her timetable has shifted from full-time French to barely any French as she's instead being asked to do extra literacy / numeracy / PE / anything. The head (new in September) has made it very clear that they don't value French and as the school is now an academy, the children are no longer entitled to it at KS2. They feel the time is better used to prepare for SATs. Very sad and narrow-minded.